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Re: Piggy Pics

Postby EMC » Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:37 am

Lmao!!! I don't quite know why but when I clicked this I was expecting pics of actual pigs :p but in all seriousness that's a fine looking piggeh you got :) I for one love the vintage/aged look.
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Re: Piggy Pics

Postby arminhachmer » Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:34 am

OK, i am in the dark here...what makes a piggy a piggy?
Bore? 5/4? 6/4? any brand? or just a nickname for Cerveny?
Help this ignorant tuba player please. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: Piggy Pics

Postby 58mark » Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:37 am

3/4 body, 5/4 bore, 4/4 bell, tall body, short bell

I've heard many horns called "piggy like" but I've never heard anybody say "this is my miraphone piggy" so yes, I't just a cerveny thing
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Re: Piggy Pics

Postby 58mark » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:35 am

here's a video I did of me playing duets with a former student


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoUZJh2hKAs" target="_blank
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Re: Piggy Pics

Postby the elephant » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:48 am

A Piggy is the model 603.

.827" bore
In CC
4 rotors, though you see them with five on occasion. They have been offered with five for some time now, but they do not play as well, for some reason. (Anecdotal) Cerveny seems to be trying to boost sales by cannibalizing their own success. Now you find the BBb "version" - called the Arion, and a different tuba altogether - called the Arion Piggy. For a few years there were five of six horns they called "piggy style". But the only "real" piggy is the CCB-603 series of horns.
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Re: Piggy Pics

Postby 58mark » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:01 am

it's not that piggies dont' play as well with 5 valves, it's that the new piggies in general don't play as well as the old ones. I think a new 4 valve piggy plays just like its 5 valve counterpart. Likewise, I've played older piggies (like annienorm's from page 1 of this this thread) that play great before and after he added the 5th valve

I've toyed with the idea of adding a 5th to mine, but F is in tune 124, I can reach D if needed by pulling slides, and C# can be lipped up from low C with a nice sound, so I've never gone through with it
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Re: Piggy Pics

Postby the elephant » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:21 pm

No, I meant that I have read in many places over the years that *adding* a 5th valve seems to alter the playing characteristics of a 4v piggy. Also, originally, the up-charge for adding a 5th to a 603 was ridiculously high for what you got. It was much less of a soft difference between the 4v and 5v 186 horns. I think Miraphone intended to market the 186 CC as a 5 valved horn from the get go, so the price was set as a 5v and they took off of that to sell it as a 4v, whereas the piggy was never intended to be a 5v tuba and they had to make a special effort to add one, like they did not keep lots of the linkage/lever sets made up and in a box somewhere, but had to tool up to make each one individually. Before, when the piggy was only offered as a 4v tuba you could always convince them to add a valve, but the price was terribly high. Later, when they officially offered a 603-5 version the cost difference was not quite as bad, but I believe that the 5-er is still a lot more than the traditional 4v piggy. So the addition of a 5th was like the cost of the parts, labor *and* setup charges. Now I think they keep those bits in boxes somewhere, ready to go.

Likewise, having a tech retrofit a 5th seemed also to displease the people who had this done. They said it just played less well. I do not know whether this was due to the tech's skill or whatever.

Also, there have been several models that I no longer see for sale on their site that were piggy wraps but with much smaller bores. I seem to remember at one point ten years ago (or so) that there were like six Cerveny models of tubas for sale in the US being sold as piggies. That further muddles the pot.

As far as I know, the only actual horn called the piggy is the 603 CC horn. (Now *officially* available with 5 valves).

Time for coffee. Talk more later... :mrgreen:
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Re: Piggy Pics

Postby bloke » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:16 pm

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Re: Piggy Pics

Postby EdFirth » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:32 pm

To address the question"What makes a Piggy a Piggy". While I was in the West Point Band I was in NYC every chance I got at Walter Sear's place in the hotel. I missed the uncrating of the first batch of Piggys but was there a few days later. Paul C. from Philly(and most recently, at the time,the West Point Band) had bought six of them for himself and his students.Mr Sear mentioned that John Fletcher had dubbed them "Little Piggies" so that's where the name came from. He also implied that this had been his idea. Putting a short bell on a KaiserC. I think they were originaly called "Opera Models". Huge bore(he told me at that time that it was .835) but super compact body making life in the pit more bearable for everyone. Mabye Ray Noguera will chime in and fill in some of the blanks. Ed
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Re: Piggy Pics

Postby the elephant » Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:25 pm

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Re: Piggy Pics

Postby 58mark » Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:41 pm

Sweet piggy!
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Re: Piggy Pics

Postby the elephant » Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:21 pm

Yes it is... :mrgreen:

I think our bass trombonist wants to marry it!
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Re: Piggy Pics

Postby 58mark » Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:00 pm

I can't say enough great things about these tubas. I would still be playing mine, but most of my performing with a orchestra with a beast of a brass section, and over time I found the piggy just wasn't keeping up, so I had to go larger. For everything but that, it's wonderful

Just an hour ago I realized during rests i have to maneuver and contort my 601 in such a way to not hit the tympani, but for the first 17 years I played with the group the piggy just sat neatly across my lap

Last saturday I had a piggy and a hard case euphonium in the back seat of my subcompact car... couldn't do that with my 601 either, which hardly fits back there by itself.
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Re: Piggy Pics

Postby 58mark » Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:08 pm

this is Richard Murrow's old piggy, now owned by Eric Stephens of Nashville

late 60's early 70, which means it might be older than Roger Lewis' piggy from page one, but this one doesn't have the thermometer style 2nd valve crook... interesting

It also looks like it lost the traditional Bull nose ring as a thumbring
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Re: Piggy Pics

Postby Tubajug » Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:19 pm

the elephant wrote:Yes it is... :mrgreen:

I think our bass trombonist wants to marry it!


Did you find a trade for your Eb Wade?
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Re: Piggy Pics

Postby the elephant » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:10 am

You are correct, sir...
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Re: Piggy Pics

Postby Tubajug » Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:52 pm

the elephant wrote:You are correct, sir...


Good deal! Congrats! Too bad it doesn't fit in with all your other piston horns!
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Re: Piggy Pics

Postby David Richoux » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:58 pm

Mine is a BBb Monke - 15" bell. I have no idea how old it is nor who actually made it - the Monke website does not admit to ever selling a tuba. I bought it from Don Thornton (from The Klezmorim.)
monke1.jpg
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I had the original S arms replaced with ball bearing action back in the 1980s when this was my main small tuba. It has a very full sound for a small horn and the range is also good.
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Re: Piggy Pics

Postby big1096 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:04 pm

Hi everyone! This is my first post on the forum, so I thought I would post it here. Here's a pic of my piggy. My parents bought it for me as a pre graduation present in high school. Brand new in 1987, and plays even better today! Sorry for the slightly blurry shot...

Cheers! :tuba:
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Re: Piggy Pics

Postby 58mark » Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:09 pm

Wow, exact same vintage as mine!

very cool, welcome to Tubenet!
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