Plastic fantastic?

[bisontuba]

http://www.rheinsoundmusic.com/products ... d=1&sid=61" target="_blank


http://www.rheinsoundmusic.com/products ... d=1&sid=49" target="_blank

Mark

[robcat2075]

That's a very impressive result.

[EdFirth]

As a 62 year old guy with a constantly sore back on Dixieland jobs this is somewhat encouraging. Ed

[robcat2075]

If they were market smart they'd not use the word "plastic" but some more technical term for the material.

ABS is Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene. Hmmm... not much to work with there.

But the sound the man is getting is well within the window tuba sounds that are accepted.

[pjv]

If this tuba can blend in with the rest and the valves are tight and quick then it could be a nice alternative for traveling.
It's light = 11lbs (assuming it's the same tuba as advertised here http://jhmasterwork.en.alibaba.com/prod ... _tuba.html" target="_blank).
A tuba, if banged around, can be damaged in transport by it's own weight. Not the case with this (I assume). You also can't dent it. (hmm, a flight case for a plastic tuba, ha ha).
I also can't imagine getting emotionally attached to plastic. If it gets damaged, lost or stolen it'll be a financial bummer but probably not the emotional crush a musician feels when they really love an instrument.
Also I like the idea that the criminally minded might pass up a plastic tuba, something they might not do when a brass tuba is within their grasp.
I'm sure studio players that do a lot of doubling might like this tuba. And tuba players that travel a lot on subways as well.

[bisontuba]

As a 62 year old guy with a constantly sore back on Dixieland jobs this is somewhat encouraging. Ed

+1

Double +1

And the "future' orchestral sections: The Strings, Percussion, Woodwinds, and THE PLASTICS .......

PS. They also make(?) a brass 4 rotor CC tuba, so maybe a plastic CC clone (of a clone?) could be a reality...,

[pjv]

In all honesty, Alibaba's advertised aluminum valves kind of scare me.

[groovlow]

First piece to break receiver.
second piece to break water key
third,cracked main tuning slide since it sees all the action...
with the spitvalve missing.
Think of all the broken plastic pieces that rendered all sorts of your appliances disposable !!!!
Need a 5th spigot? Call a plumber.
I want one soon as they are available under $500.
Joe
Tuba Nashville

[opus37]

At around $950 plus over $300 shipping, I do not see this as a good value. I think there are slightly used horns available for about the same money and will play as well or better. Light weight is a reason to consider one of these. I would be concerned about durability over time especially the valves. Large temperature variations may be a problem. I like the cutting edge, but I am not considering one of these.

[bort]

Yeah, but if it were clear we'd all say it was awesome.

(Not meant as a knock on the stealth tuba!)

[Chasetbr]

http://www.rheinsoundmusic.com/products.asp?bid=1" target="_blank

They have several instruments available. I also wonder if the f attachment trombone takes a small or large shank mouthpiece.

[robcat2075]

Pure ABS plastic has a linear thermal expansion coefficient about 4x that of brass and nickel. Probably still insignificant over the typical temperature range that one uses a musical instrument.

"Fiber reinforced" ABS has a coefficient only slightly higher than the metals.

Extreme durability seems to be a key advantage...

From Wikipedia:

ABS's light weight and ability to be injection molded and extruded make it useful in manufacturing products such as drain-waste-vent (DWV) pipe systems, musical instruments (recorders, plastic clarinets, and piano movements), golf club heads (because of its good shock absorbance), automotive trim components, automotive bumper bars, medical devices for blood access, enclosures for electrical and electronic assemblies, protective headgear, whitewater canoes, buffer edging for furniture and joinery panels, luggage and protective carrying cases, small kitchen appliances, and toys, including Lego and Kre-O bricks.[13] Household and consumer goods are the major applications of ABS.[14]

When I was a school band director we had one tuba with seriously flattened bell. I sent it off to be repaired at great price. It came back looking like new but within a few weeks it was flattened again.

If these plastic tubas can at least meet the musical performance level of the brass three-valve "institutional" level tubas that cost thou$and$ today, I think they absolutely will have a place in tubadom.

I bet a school district purchasing several could get a deal on those.

[Wyvern]

They are available for under $500 right now...

http://jhmasterwork.en.alibaba.com/prod ... _tuba.html

That sort of price is only if you buy complete shipping container of plastic instruments!

Yes, I have considered Wessex selling...but think I have better idea

[robcat2075]

A small bump won't break brass but that's all it takes to render a valve inoperable or make a permanent scar.

On average, the plastic horn may have an edge in survivability.

[Kory101]

I think for what it is, it sounds pretty damn good.

In fact, I just opened the video and my wife goes "that sounds pretty nice, who's playing?" before she knew it was a plastic horn.

I'm impressed.

[UDELBR]

At around $950 plus over $300 shipping, I do not see this as a good value.

Wouldn't you have to hear this instrument in person in order to make this statement? Or have you?

[Art Hovey]

The alibaba version has rotary valves in the photo but stainless steel pistons in the specifications. I wonder how long it will take to get that clarified.

[PMeuph]

At around $950 plus over $300 shipping, I do not see this as a good value.

Wouldn't you have to hear this instrument in person in order to make this statement? Or have you?

For me, I don't see this as good value as:

1. A market price hasn't yet settled (Once supply increases we'll get a better idea of what a fair price is)
2. $1250 is a significant purchase. (Unlike the Pbone which is priced a $150 and that is an amount of money that I can be less careful with (ie. a Days pay vs a weeks pay)) (Although for some it might be 2 days pay vs 2 weeks pay)
3. The stigma will certainly be strong against them before they become a bit more mainstream...

[tofu]

3. The stigma will certainly be strong against them before they become a bit more mainstream...

I can certainly see the school market for these if they truly play like a good student line tuba. Time will tell about the value proposition from a durability standpoint. Plastic has advantages over brass from a dent stand point but when plastic cracks or breaks I think it is going to be hard to fix. Valve durability is going to be a real test. If these tubas can be priced right where it's just toss and replace and you can do that cheaper over the life cycle of the comparable brass and fix tuba then they will sell.

Personally all these plastic instruments still look like kids toys to me. I know band directors that won't use fiberglass sousaphones - some will tell you it's because of the look and others will hide behind the sound excuse but it's really the look they object to. I guess if some big professional player like a Gene Pokorny used a plastic tuba regularly in the CSO it would take away some of the stigma. I wonder if conductors with the stature of a Mutti would be ok with it if the only difference was the look and not the sound.

[pjv]

About the plastic sousaphone sound excuse; there is some viability in this.
Plastics, to my ears, carry less highs in their frequencies. I've noticed that a pBone by itself or without other brass instruments sounds like a trombone, but together with other brass instruments the blend isn't what I'm used to.

Sousaphones (which are partially brass) have this as well. One of the things that makes it workable is that I'm used to it. I've heard it many times before and I know this sound. The other aspect that makes a plastic sousaphone usable is function. A sousaphone is mostly working the bass function so less highs won't necessarily hinder that work (and may even help it).

Would an audience find the sound of a plastic tuba undesirable in an orchestra setting (let's forget for now what we see)? Or could one use it in the pit? On a recording? Who knows. If it plays in tune and the valves are up to par I could see using it in amplified situations.

Lots of "if's", but times are a changin' so I don't see non-brass brass instruments ever going away. It's up to us to utilize anything and everything that can help to step up our game (and keep it affordable!).