Chinese imports: No one gets real like Dr Walter E Williams

[Donn]

Just out of curiosity, when is a good time for "austerity" or when was the last time Greece implemented such a scheme??

According to Keynes, "the boom, not the slump". Nations may have practiced austerity in boom times, for all I know, but they haven't made much of a fuss about it if they have. I imagine there isn't much popular support for it - if you're doing well, you're more likely to spend extravagantly, so (following the kitchen table economics model) why shouldn't the government? But austerity imposed on a country like Greece during a recession, is just a way to strangle it and insure that it will never pay anything off.

Let's say you're way over your head on your credit card, so the bank repo'd your car yesterday - and it's 6AM and you're 20 miles from your place of employment. Good luck with that debt payment schedule, without a job! When we look at this through the kitchen table economics perspective, it may almost seem like the right thing, because justice maybe ought to be a higher priority than the bank getting its money back. But if we're talking about nations? No. Dunking 11 million people into economic recession is never the right thing, for a peaceful nation anyway (and Greece, beyond just a peaceful nation, has been there on the front lines for the West since they invented the West.)

[Donn]

Inflation is hard on people who keep their money in the mattress, eh, bloke?

[Three Valves]

Just out of curiosity, when is a good time for "austerity" or when was the last time Greece implemented such a scheme??

According to Keynes, "the boom, not the slump". Nations may have practiced austerity in boom times, for all I know, but they haven't made much of a fuss about it if they have. I imagine there isn't much popular support for it - if you're doing well, you're more likely to spend extravagantly, so (following the kitchen table economics model) why shouldn't the government? But austerity imposed on a country like Greece during a recession, is just a way to strangle it and insure that it will never pay anything off.

Let's say you're way over your head on your credit card, so the bank repo'd your car yesterday - and it's 6AM and you're 20 miles from your place of employment. Good luck with that debt payment schedule, without a job! When we look at this through the kitchen table economics perspective, it may almost seem like the right thing, because justice maybe ought to be a higher priority than the bank getting its money back. But if we're talking about nations? No. Dunking 11 million people into economic recession is never the right thing, for a peaceful nation anyway (and Greece, beyond just a peaceful nation, has been there on the front lines for the West since they invented the West.)

Your analogy is flawed.

If I was Greek, I'd be collecting retirement benefits already and wouldn't need a car. "Austerity" would mean that Germany finally refused to pay my credit card bill for me.

Work at 60 to pay for my own cigarettes and ouzo??

Those Nazis!!

[Donn]

If I was Greek, I'd be collecting retirement benefits already and wouldn't need a car.

Oh, yeah, retirement. tradingingeconomics.com lists retirement age 67 years, compared to 66 for US. Anyway, as of last summer, Greek pension benefits have been cut by 40% compared to 2009. It isn't just old people not working, unemployment is 24%. The point is, their economy is in utter shambles because of the austerity programs that have been forced on them. Their GDP has been shrinking most of the time since 2009. So what they get is more austerity packages, now they're up to eleven. Going to get them out of debt? No way.

[Three Valves]

Anyway, as of last summer, Greek pension benefits have been cut by 40% compared to 2009. It isn't just old people not working, unemployment is 24%. The point is, their economy is in utter shambles because of the austerity programs that have been forced on them. Their GDP has been shrinking most of the time since 2009. So what they get is more austerity packages, now they're up to eleven.

Going to get them out of debt? No way.

Are you sure decades of overspending and an unfavorable business climate had nothing to do with it??

I don't think austerity is supposed to get them out of debt. It's supposed to get them off their collective dupas!! THAT will get them out of debt.

[Three Valves]

This Greek talk is making me hungry!!

See anyone here;

http://festival.stgeorge.org/" target="_blank

If you are in DC Metro 05/20-22

I'm seriously considering converting just for the food.

[Donn]

Anyway, as of last summer, Greek pension benefits have been cut by 40% compared to 2009. It isn't just old people not working, unemployment is 24%. The point is, their economy is in utter shambles because of the austerity programs that have been forced on them. Their GDP has been shrinking most of the time since 2009. So what they get is more austerity packages, now they're up to eleven.

Going to get them out of debt? No way.

Are you sure decades of overspending and an unfavorable business climate had nothing to do with it??

I don't think austerity is supposed to get them out of debt. It's supposed to get them off their collective dupas!! THAT will get them out of debt.

Did I mention, 24% unemployment? Yeah, that's what austerity can do to get people working. There's no question that Greece has been a political quagmire and that's why in 2008 it was in disturbingly bad shape. It's no Sweden. But GDP grew from 1996 to 2008. The question is whether austerity has done a damn bit of good for anyone, and manifestly it has not.

[Donn]

One of those fractions would include me, by the way - though "would" work is according to the broadest definition of "would". (If it's easy to get, pays well, leaves lots of spare time and is somewhat interesting, yeah, mebbe.) Over 60, though, so not likely. Whether I say I'm looking or not, I'm not "unemployed" for statistical purposes, because I'm no longer on the rolls. People dropping out of the unemployed statistic in large numbers can kind of present a false recovery picture, whatever their interest in work.

Anyway, the figure I see is 63% labor participation rate, so same ballpark. (US economic indicators.) Greece is 52%. Numbers probably aren't valid for comparison, though.

[Three Valves]

Did I mention, 24% unemployment? Yeah, that's what austerity can do to get people working. There's no question that Greece has been a political quagmire and that's why in 2008 it was in disturbingly bad shape. It's no Sweden. But GDP grew from 1996 to 2008. The question is whether austerity has done a damn bit of good for anyone, and manifestly it has not.

Like sequestration here in the US, which was suppose to draw us into depression and produce violence in the streets, it could be too soon to tell but it is a step in the right direction.

You don't cure debt and unemployment by subsidizing debt and unemployment.

You don't cure addiction with more booze.

[windshieldbug]

You don't cure addiction with more booze.

No, but you can make the problem go somewhere else!

[Donn]

Like sequestration here in the US, which was suppose to draw us into depression and produce violence in the streets, it could be too soon to tell but it is a step in the right direction.

You don't cure debt and unemployment by subsidizing debt and unemployment.

You don't cure addiction with more booze.

You don't use your everyday experience to run something as large, complex and important as the US economy.

[Donn]

...but we do have riots here, although they are "predictable" and "contained"...NEVER in ruling class or gov't officials' neighborhoods, etc..., because they are carried out by professionals (financed by a certain well-known Hungarian radial Alinskyite billionaire)...

bloke "One of the main points of the Alinsky textbook - and yes, he really did write a textbook...which you can buy and read - is that the intentional creation of chaos (various types of chaos...as we continuously see - which prompts regular 9-to-5 schmoes...schmoes, who don't understand how they are being manipulated...to cry out to the gov't to 'DO SOMETHING!') is one of the best/quickest ways to increase the size/scope/tyranny of gov't and to greatly reduce individual liberty/sovereignty/self-guided destiny."

I am grateful for the excerpt - in my neighborhood we're going up against a bunch of new proposed city administration policies, and these look like potentially useful tips.

I too see a lot of manipulation going on, but not so much connected to any radical movement that I can see, rather a lot of very conventional politicians looking for scapegoats while their policies sell us out to economic exploitation.

[Three Valves]

You don't use your everyday experience to run something as large, complex and important as the US economy.

A Free Market and Liberty runs something as large, complex and important as the US economy.

Irrational fiscal policy, over regulation and taxation kills it.

Join us, Brother, breath in the Liberty!!

You have nothing to lose but your chains!!

[Three Valves]

Don't push people out of their cells, 3, they'll freak.

Reminds me of some people I know that freak out over Boat or Gun licensing.

"You mean all you need to own and run a 40ft boat is the money and will to do it??"

"Yep"

"Doesn't everyone kill themselves??"

"Not often!!"

Like children, they are surprised they don't have to ask permission to be free.

Poor dumb bastards...

[Donn]

What about the people who see freedom as the ability to putt around on the lake without obtaining a license, or ride a motorcycle without a helmet to take another example? That is, as something completely inconsequential that might be enjoyed once in a while. Take a look at your own cell, bro.

[bisontuba]

Read the new book 'Dark Money'......a lot of things come to light.....

[gwwilk]

Read the new book 'Dark Money'......a lot of things come to light.....

Here's a look at Jane Mayer's agenda. Do you smell a rat? If so, where?

[Donn]

Thanks for bringing that up - if you want to find out whether what her story about Koch Industries is true, why obviously, their COO would be the one to ask about that. One wonders why she didn't just do that herself - obviously, she cares nothing for the truth!

[bisontuba]

Read the new book 'Dark Money'......a lot of things come to light.....

Here's a look at Jane Mayer's agenda. Do you smell a rat? If so, where?

I smell a big rat...lawyer John Hinderaker of powerlineblog has been a long time defender of the Koch Brothers....I mean, no kidding he criticizes the book...he has to protect his clients, the Kochs....their father, Fred Koch, besides all of his other actions, was a founding member of the John Birch Society...that kind of tells all....

[Three Valves]

What about the people who see freedom as the ability to putt around on the lake without obtaining a license, or ride a motorcycle without a helmet to take another example? That is, as something completely inconsequential that might be enjoyed once in a while.

Exactly!!

Most people I know assume they need a license for a gun or boat because they are trained to need one for their car or to build a fence in their own yard or cut even down a tree!!

Now, if your Local or State Nannies say you need one, that's on them.

I have a bigger problem with bigger government.

The further away, or bigger it gets, the less it should be trusted.

The same could be said for Big Businesses//Big Banks that are cozy with Big Government.