Kennedy Center Opera trombone audition
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Kennedy Center Opera trombone audition
Anyone know what happened?
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No winner
They listened to two players in finals and did not choose a winner. Bill Thomas from the Navy Band in Washington was a finalist.
- Alex C
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Nobody's good enough.
If all of the positions in the orchestra were open, they wouldn't have an orchestra because nobody is good enough.
The conductor is not good enough either. Doesn't matter who he is... not good enough!
The audience is not good enough either. They shouldn't even be allowed to buy tickets because T H E Y - A R E N ' T - G O O D - E N O U G H.
Sorry, I seemed to have gotten into a rant here. Imagine that... and over a bass trombone audition! Apologies to all except to the audition committee because apologies aren't good enough!
Maybe they will find someone good enough at the next audition.
Whew! I'm done.
If all of the positions in the orchestra were open, they wouldn't have an orchestra because nobody is good enough.
The conductor is not good enough either. Doesn't matter who he is... not good enough!
The audience is not good enough either. They shouldn't even be allowed to buy tickets because T H E Y - A R E N ' T - G O O D - E N O U G H.
Sorry, I seemed to have gotten into a rant here. Imagine that... and over a bass trombone audition! Apologies to all except to the audition committee because apologies aren't good enough!
Maybe they will find someone good enough at the next audition.
Whew! I'm done.
- windshieldbug
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Dude,
I've been on committees, and not hiring if you NOT SURE just means that you can hire whomever you want UNTIL YOU ARE SURE. Which is a great way for people to get the experience that they need SO THAT YOU CAN CONVINCE THE SAME PEOPLE!
I've been on committees, and not hiring if you NOT SURE just means that you can hire whomever you want UNTIL YOU ARE SURE. Which is a great way for people to get the experience that they need SO THAT YOU CAN CONVINCE THE SAME PEOPLE!
Instead of talking to your plants, if you yelled at them would they still grow, but only to be troubled and insecure?
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For the record...
-the other finalist was Jonathan Reycraft of the Naval Academy Band in Annapolis, MD
-It was for Principal Trombone, not bass trombone
-It is not the case of "not good enough". Both John, and Bill are tremendous players who could masterfully perform that job any day of the week.
-I used to get all riled up over auditions with no winner, just like everyone else, until I began sitting on committees. When you are listening to players who want to join your ensemble, or more to the point, your section, you have a right to go through the process and not select anyone if no one sounds good at that time. Its not a question of "You are not a good player". It is "we did not hear a player on this date, at this time, in this specific forum of an audition, who we feel played to the standards of our ensemble". An audition is a mere snapshot of the performer, and not a full evaluation of their skills in a more relaxed environment.
In the few auditions I have sat in on, I have become easily convinced by good, mediocre, and awful playing to say "Yes, you win the job", or "i need to hear more", or "Nope, nope and definetly NOPE!" And in one case, felt that I did not hear anything worth rewarding with employment. Good playing, but not good enough that I would feel comfortable sitting next to for 20 years.
My 2 cents. Invest it well.
Jay Heltzer
USAF Ceremonial Brass
-the other finalist was Jonathan Reycraft of the Naval Academy Band in Annapolis, MD
-It was for Principal Trombone, not bass trombone
-It is not the case of "not good enough". Both John, and Bill are tremendous players who could masterfully perform that job any day of the week.
-I used to get all riled up over auditions with no winner, just like everyone else, until I began sitting on committees. When you are listening to players who want to join your ensemble, or more to the point, your section, you have a right to go through the process and not select anyone if no one sounds good at that time. Its not a question of "You are not a good player". It is "we did not hear a player on this date, at this time, in this specific forum of an audition, who we feel played to the standards of our ensemble". An audition is a mere snapshot of the performer, and not a full evaluation of their skills in a more relaxed environment.
In the few auditions I have sat in on, I have become easily convinced by good, mediocre, and awful playing to say "Yes, you win the job", or "i need to hear more", or "Nope, nope and definetly NOPE!" And in one case, felt that I did not hear anything worth rewarding with employment. Good playing, but not good enough that I would feel comfortable sitting next to for 20 years.
My 2 cents. Invest it well.
Jay Heltzer
USAF Ceremonial Brass
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BrassHombre wrote "So, in that case, wouldn't it be better to hold another round, and let them duke it out until one was clearly shown as the winner?"
I'm speculating here, since I was nowhere near the KC that day. I'm guessing what the committee heard that day was their performances in a vaccuum, and it wasn't up to par for that band. If you hear playing you don't like, at an audition, you don't have the time or patience to wait until someone starts to play in the way you do like. If that were the case, I'd still be on stage in St. Louis for their bass trombone audition back in '95!!! I think I would be closer to Gerry Pagano by NOW!
That is not to say that the two finalists, the two other semi-finalists, or the prelim candidates who were able to receive comments, or simply know why they didn't advance, won't go back, fix the problems that ailed them, and put together an audition that the committee likes. On top of all that, the committee for the next audition could have different personnel. That could change everything.
For the people who don't possess the skills to win an audition, they will be cut. For those that do, its still a gamble on how you play that day, and what the committee is looking for. You may be a Porsche, and a hell of a Porsche, but they may be looking for a Ferrari.
Jay
I'm speculating here, since I was nowhere near the KC that day. I'm guessing what the committee heard that day was their performances in a vaccuum, and it wasn't up to par for that band. If you hear playing you don't like, at an audition, you don't have the time or patience to wait until someone starts to play in the way you do like. If that were the case, I'd still be on stage in St. Louis for their bass trombone audition back in '95!!! I think I would be closer to Gerry Pagano by NOW!

That is not to say that the two finalists, the two other semi-finalists, or the prelim candidates who were able to receive comments, or simply know why they didn't advance, won't go back, fix the problems that ailed them, and put together an audition that the committee likes. On top of all that, the committee for the next audition could have different personnel. That could change everything.
For the people who don't possess the skills to win an audition, they will be cut. For those that do, its still a gamble on how you play that day, and what the committee is looking for. You may be a Porsche, and a hell of a Porsche, but they may be looking for a Ferrari.
Jay
- windshieldbug
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If they thought another hour would tell them anything more, I'm sure they would have gone through it. The last thing a committee wants to do is sit through all the time an audition takes, and then have to do another again later.
They may be great players, and simply just had an OK day, or a million other things. The thing is, if you hire someone, you want to be SURE that this is the person you want to play next to, to get tenure, and for the next 40 years.
The last thing you want to do is just "try" someone, just to SEE if they'll work out. It's not fair to anyone involved.
I've sat through auditions where people I knew were auditioning must've just had an off day. If you're not sure in the quality of THAT performance on THAT day, there is no way you want to commit for that length of time in the future.
They may be great players, and simply just had an OK day, or a million other things. The thing is, if you hire someone, you want to be SURE that this is the person you want to play next to, to get tenure, and for the next 40 years.
The last thing you want to do is just "try" someone, just to SEE if they'll work out. It's not fair to anyone involved.
I've sat through auditions where people I knew were auditioning must've just had an off day. If you're not sure in the quality of THAT performance on THAT day, there is no way you want to commit for that length of time in the future.
Instead of talking to your plants, if you yelled at them would they still grow, but only to be troubled and insecure?
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- Alex C
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No bridges will be burned if the remarks are taken in context, it was obviously intended as humor. For those who didn't take the post in the proper contextLoyalTubist wrote:It also helps to burn bridges.Alex C wrote:Dude,
Drug free.
A good rant, now and then, clears the sinuses.
you're not good enough!!!
I've enjoyed reading the prespective from committee members. It reminds me of the story I've heard: the principal horn of a major US orchestra auditioned for an opening in the section. Behind the screen he auditioned, expecting to wow the committee; he did not get advanced.
I think committee members should keep that in mind at the next audition. Someone who "could masterfully perform that job any day of the week" should probably get the job.
Just my $5 worth.
Last edited by Alex C on Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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My experience comes from "saying what I feel" then losing gigs to players whom I could play circles around. It also comes from saying stupid things to immigration officials in some of the countries I have visited/lived in. I don't think my children have ever forgiven me.


________________________________________________________
You only have one chance to make a first impression. Don't blow it.
You only have one chance to make a first impression. Don't blow it.
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hi
Alex C wrote:No bridges will be burned if the remarks are taken in context, it was obviously intended as humor. For those who didn't take the post in the proper contextLoyalTubist wrote:It also helps to burn bridges.Alex C wrote:Dude,
Drug free.
A good rant, now and then, clears the sinuses.
you're not good enough!!!
I've enjoyed reading the prespective from committee members. It reminds me of the story I've heard: the principal horn of a major US orchestra auditioned for an opening in the section. Behind the screen he auditioned, expecting to wow the committee; he did not get advanced.
I think committee members should keep that in mind at the next audition. Someone who "could masterfully perform that job any day of the week" should probably get the job.
Just my $5 worth.
You got to realize, that humans are not perfect, God knows my lesson teacher does not sound the same as he would on most days. Its like a car crash......Its not " IF" you get into a car crash...Its " When" you get into one. Same thing for auditions, you are going to have your off days, its not " IF" you screw up an audition.....Its " When" you screw it up, and you know what, thats life, and guess what.........life goes on. There will be other auditions.
- KiwiTuba
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Nowdays, You should also never get angry at the clerk behind the check-in desk, or you will find yourself selected for 'Extra-screening' by the airline. Of course, that could be a good thing if you like being felt up by a complete stranger.LoyalTubist wrote:My experience comes from "saying what I feel" then losing gigs to players whom I could play circles around. It also comes from saying stupid things to immigration officials in some of the countries I have visited/lived in. I don't think my children have ever forgiven me.
Never be rude to the people who cook your food, or they will spit in it.
Thomas Allely
Thomas Allely
Just doin' my job,
sitting up the back,
playing low notes
Just doin' my job,
sitting up the back,
playing low notes
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hi
Why do you ask me?CSOtrbn1 wrote:Ahem...thanks Derek. Who is playing principal in KCO this season?