Splicing CDs

fatemokid · Post by **fatemokid** » Fri May 05, 2006 10:09 pm

I am new to making cds for auditions and I was wondering what the acceptability of splicing recordings is. I have been trying to make an audition cd, and I can't seem to get it all in one take.
Is it acceptable to record half at one time and half at another, and splice them together?

BoyFromTaint · Post by **BoyFromTaint** » Fri May 05, 2006 11:55 pm

I think so. What is the difference between playing something in its entirety a gazillion times and taking the best take -or- playing something a half a gazillion times and taking half of one and half of another take?

I agree with the previous post that you always want to present your best product. (Almost) everyone makes a mistake now and then and it shows pride to want to fix/modify it. I'd rather hear an audition tape in which an auditioner took the time to present h/h best playing than one that leaves blantant errors.

On the other hand, it is very difficult to hide bad playing by editing recordings. A person's tone, articulation, rhythm, intonation, and general sense of musicianship will all show through regardless of the amount of editing that can be done, so long as the playing is authentic.

Some folks argue that it is "unfair advantage" for a person to submit an edited recording for any reason. But, be it an audition for a job, a solo competition or an acceptance tape for a school, you must at some point play live. If you've managed to disguise your playing to such an extent on a recording that you do not sound like yourself, it will certainly become apparent at the live audition.

Some hints on recording and editing for submission or publication:

Make sure that the sound quality of the recording adequately represents your sound. This can be accomplished by using the best equipment, hall or studio, and recording engineer that you can find/afford.

Make sure that the edits that you do make are not noticable. This can be accomplished by making all the takes with the same set-up, using the best equipment and the best recording/editing engineer that you can find/afford.

If your playing is to be accompanied, get the best pianist/ensemble that you find/afford for the job. The last thing you want to do is struggle with bad accompanying while making a recording that is supposed to represent you at your best.

I'm sure a real recording engineer can give you much more information than this.

Good luck on your recording.

dtemp · Post by **dtemp** » Sat May 06, 2006 12:31 am

I've done it for myself and others here and there. Here's my theory:

If you played the notes, you played the notes. I don't have real qualms replacing an "ify" section with a good sounding one. I will NOT do anything to better pitch, time, or sound even though I can (slight bragging, sorry).

I also agree with the above statement of "You'd better be able to pony up when you arrive".

I think one of the most important things is to make sure you are able to capture the best representation of you. I always try my best to get the best sound of the player (via mic placement mostly). A few tips if I may...

1. Try and use a good sized space. Either the width or length of the room should be equal to the length of your horn (stole that from Jim Self).

2. Play around with the room when it comes to mic placement. You'd be surprised as to what kind of configuration will give you the best sound.

3. A mic in the back part of the room usually gives a good resonance to the sound when mixed with a closer mic.

4. Don't get over zealous when editing. To many times I've heard "finished products" that sound like they've been fully generated by computers.

Good luck!

**Edit: I just realized that some of my statements echo ones (that I'd neglected to read) made by the poster above. Coincidence? Nope.**

jbeish · Post by **jbeish** » Sat May 06, 2006 1:05 am

I will go ahead and say no. If you splice a cd or edit a cd and send it in, you're sending a misrepresentation. I remember having a conversation with a pro who was on an audition panel and he recalled hearing a great preliminary audition cd but when the candidate was invited, he fell on his face. Granted he might've had a bad day but still this is not a reputation you want to have for yourself in our small little community. I think the panel will be more impressed with "live" cd than an edited one. That's just how I view audition cds. Best of luck!

Justin

Rick F · Post by **Rick F** » Sat May 06, 2006 8:20 am

jbeish wrote:I will go ahead and say no. If you splice a cd or edit a cd and send it in, you're sending a misrepresentation. I remember having a conversation with a pro who was on an audition panel and he recalled hearing a great preliminary audition cd but when the candidate was invited, he fell on his face. Granted he might've had a bad day but still this is not a reputation you want to have for yourself in our small little community. I think the panel will be more impressed with "live" cd than an edited one. That's just how I view audition cds. Best of luck!

Justin

I agree with Justin. If your audition CD is for a group that performs "live", then you should record it live.

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Sat May 06, 2006 10:24 am

A rule of thumb I have heard - the smallest "splice" should be a complete movement.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sat May 06, 2006 11:00 am

I will echo what's been said;

The goal of an audition CD is to be invited to play live, so if you need to do things to meet that goal, do them,

but

Once there, you're wasting everybody's time if you can't back it up!

dtemp · Post by **dtemp** » Sat May 06, 2006 12:37 pm

I'm not talking about 15 edits for every excerpt, or "the first four measures of the VW were good on this take, lets add it to theses measures here...". I'm talking about splicing things like the halves of the common Prok. 5 excerpt, or in between movements of solos, or things like that. You want to put out your best product, but too much editing WOULD be a misrepresentation.

This is a fine line we're all walking on here, and I'm sure some people are going to lean to different sides of said line.

Leland · Post by **Leland** » Mon May 08, 2006 12:43 pm

I agree with what dtemp was saying, that splicing bit-by-bit is getting excessive. You should be able to play one large section or movement in one take and do it exceptionally well.

Calling it an "unfair advantage" is just lazy, too. If you've been putting in the time and gaining the performance experience, you're going to be around people that know how to record and can help you out.

And, just like everyone else has said so far, you'd better be able to back it up.

Leland · Post by **Leland** » Mon May 08, 2006 12:55 pm

Click track?

Well, really, if someone can't keep a tempo during at least one take, they probably shouldn't be trying to get a gig anyway.

There's nothing to stop someone from using a visual metronome, either. Besides, if the player knows the music well enough to record it & send in the result, they surely know it well enough to not stare at the paper.

JCradler · Post by **JCradler** » Mon May 08, 2006 2:38 pm

Jerry Young's sabbatical paper on audition procedures gives quite a bit of info on this topic. If I remember correctly, the gist of it was, " Everyone else is doing it (splicing/editing), so you are at a disadvantage if you don't." (Note: not a direct quote by any means) I'm inclined to agree. If committees absolutely don't want edits, they can ask for a video tape.
That being said, if you edit, make darn sure you do it right. A recent tape round competitor at a major competition edited out about 4 bars of a major work for tuba and piano. OUCH!
Start early on recording projects. Use people you trust(accompanists and audio folks). Listen to your final product in it's entirety before mailing it off.

dtemp · Post by **dtemp** » Mon May 08, 2006 4:14 pm

Grooving for Heaven wrote:
What about click tracks? Should an in-ear metronome be allowed during a taping?

I don't think that's right. I know I wouldn't do a job where a client wanted to.

Personally, I think that a click track in my ear would distract me from playing musically. I would be so worried about being RIGHT in time that my tone, articulation, and phrasing would suffer.

Stefan Kac · Post by **Stefan Kac** » Thu May 11, 2006 8:42 am

Just a note of personal experience...

Last year I competed in the Minnesota Orchestra's WAMSO Young Artists Competition. They required that the prelim tape be unedited and for the teacher to verify that you performed from memory at the recording session. I did several takes, sent in the best one, got accepted, and ended up going all the way to the finals and winning a couple of nice prizes.

Sent the same tape to Falcone later that year...denied. I knew it would be marginal considering that I had not edited it, and my decision not to do it over was as much based on $ as the fact that I was somewhat sick of the piece after the three rounds of WAMSO. BUT, next time, I will not hesitate if it is not specfically forbidden by the rules.

jmutuba · Post by **jmutuba** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:23 pm

I didn't learn about the magnitude of tape splicing until very recently (about two months ago) and it really surprised me a lot. I have never edited a track, other than using different takes of different movements for a recording. Before finding out how many people edit their tapes for competitions and auditions, I had no clue that it was even going on. I guess to me, it's sort of sad that we have gotten to that point in our musical culture where even our best playing isn't good enough. Mistakes are mistakes and everyone makes them, no matter how amazing of a player you might be. I think it's unfortunate that we have to look at music from the perspective of how many mistakes we have made, versus how much music we have managed to create. And by no means am I saying that I am the most musical person in the world, because I have a long long long way to go before I even graduate college. But one thing my professor always tells me is that if I truly make music, the mistakes won't matter.

If our community of tuba and euphonium players as a whole could just agree to not edit our tapes *wishful thinking*, people who are great players but might not necessarily have the means for editing wouldn't be at a disadvantage, and the recordings we send out would be true representations of ourselves as a player, not the parts we pick and choose, leaving out the less-than perfect side of being a musician.

I don't mean to belittle anyone that has ever edited a tape, because considering the number of people that do, it seems impossible to get anywhere without splicing capabilities. I just wish that people could accept music for music, rather than having to pick it apart like a disease. That's why we're musicians, and not doctors, right?

That's just my $.01 worth

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:44 pm

jmutuba wrote:I I just wish that people could accept music for music, rather than having to pick it apart like a disease. That's why we're musicians, and not doctors, right?

People have come to expect exactly the same performance time and time again, just like they hear on their CD players. The upshot is that while they may be protected from never hearing any less, they'll never hear any more, either! And that, to me, is the crying shame!

Toobist · Post by **Toobist** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:07 pm

Tell you what. Contact the music director, personel manager or anyone else on the panel and inform them of your intentions to modify (which is what you're doing) the recording you are sending them and if they say 'Sure! That's cool!' then hey, why not!?!? However, I doubt any panel would be cool with that.

Also, be sure to send another message to the section leads of the orchestra informing them that you'll require the whole ensemble to stop and go back to m.m. 114-164 eleven times because you want the audience to hear you play it right at least once.

The way I see it, if you label your audition CD as 'spliced' or 'altered' or 'edited' then feel free to do it. Oh yeah, and the chances are they'll toss it. If you don't indicate this in your application somewhere as yourself why. When you come up with an answer like: "I don't want them to know it's spliced." or "I don't want them to think I'm unethical..." or "I don't want them to hear what my REAL audition would sound like." Well.... If you should win, you're 1)Stealing gigs away from the rest of us more scrupulous and perhaps better players for the duration of the probational period of the newly-won contract. and 2) Costing the orchestras/ensembles (who are already flagging financially) the cost of another audition once they see you're a fraud.

So keep your chin up those of us who don't cheat on auditions. Keep track of probation periods of those who may have won the gig you were hoping for. The spot may be open again soon so keep practicing that Meistersinger trill!

Hoping for some wonderfully ill-researched flames.

Al Carter
Toronto, ON

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:49 pm

Tubadad wrote:surely anyone who has gotten to the audition under false pretenses will be immediately weeded out

Faster than you can say, "Thank you, NEXT!"

Toobist · Post by **Toobist** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:35 pm

Yes. Thank God most gigs require a live audition. There was a half season (June-December) academy orchestra I played in that actually hired people based often-times entirely on taped auditions. I did mine live and won the three years I was elligable...thankfully. I think the reason I come off as angry at those who might try for an unfair advantage is because I'm sure I just barely won the gig those years.

Al Carter
Toronto, ON

Todd S. Malicoate · Post by **Todd S. Malicoate** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:39 am

Toobist wrote:I think the reason I come off as angry at those who might try for an unfair advantage is because I'm sure I just barely won the gig those years.

Um...you're angry because you "barely won"? Why in the world would you care?

TubeNet

Splicing CDs

Splicing CDs

splicing?

Re: splicing?