TubeNet

http://www.mso.com.au/cpa/htm/htm_artic ... page_id=25

Principal Tuba

Salary package range $73, 374 - $90, 143

Auditions Monday 19 and Tuesday 20 March 2007. Applicants must be available for both whole days.

Requirements The complete Vaughan Williams Tuba Concerto

PLUS Orchestral excerpts, available for collection on Monday 5 March

Closing date Monday 19 February 2007

Applicants for this position must be permanent Australian residents or citizens of New Zealand.

See www.mso.com.au for further details

KiwiTuba wrote:http://www.mso.com.au/cpa/htm/htm_artic ... page_id=25


Applicants for this position must be permanent Australian residents or citizens of New Zealand.

See www.mso.com.au for further details

OUCH!
Yankee go home,

Bill

Tubadork wrote:OUCH!
Yankee go home

It's that way in Europe too: if you're non-EU, it's almost impossible to audition, much less win an orchestra job these days.

UncleBeer wrote:

Tubadork wrote:OUCH!
Yankee go home

It's that way in Europe too: if you're non-EU, it's almost impossible to audition, much less win an orchestra job these days.

So.... why are US orchestras so willing to let non-residents audition for jobs in this country?

Do Tubenetter's think a reciprocal policy would be fair?

Alex C wrote:So.... why are US orchestras so willing to let non-residents audition for jobs in this country?

I don't know details, but I've heard it's no cakewalk for a foreigner to get a US work permit either.

While living in the UK, I was able to audition for a very good orchestra based in the UK. There were 16 applicants invited to the audition in London, 3 of which were Americans.......2 of us already living in the country and one grad student from Michigan.

Just that fact that I got a live audition was enough to turn some heads of my UK friends.....they thought we'd never get a shot since we weren't EU residents.

How'd it go? I was near the end of the list, so I was there to watch most everyone go in and out of their auditions.....I was the only one that went the full 15 minutes, played everything they had for me and then we had a lengthy conversation with the principal trumpet and bass trombonist.....and I still didn't pass on to trials. I think 2 of the 4 that did advance didn't even show up for the live auditions....and all 4 were Brits.

Like UncleBeer said.....it can be equally difficult for non-US citizens to win jobs here as well.

But in a perfect world......

KiwiTuba wrote:$73, 374 - $90, 143

I assume those are in Australian dollars, so it converts into about $57,550 - $70,700 USD. Still, a good amount of money for principal tuba... a higher cost of living in Australia?

"

So.... why are US orchestras so willing to let non-residents audition for jobs in this country?

Do Tubenetter's think a reciprocal policy would be fair? "

Just so you know, none of the auditions posted in the US in the last three months for tuba have been open to international applicants, although apparently this is unusual.

The salary for this job is really quite good, given the cost of living in Melbourne!

Tubadad wrote:Berlin was open to all nationalities from what I could see...

I think the really "big" jobs (here and in the E.U.) are often open internationally... Some countries have rules about trialling local candidates first before opening the audition internationally.

KiwiTuba wrote:I think the really "big" jobs (here and in the E.U.) are often open internationally...

I know for a fact that's not true in the EU. But you're welcome to believe whatever you want.

UncleBeer wrote:

KiwiTuba wrote:I think the really "big" jobs (here and in the E.U.) are often open internationally...

I know for a fact that's not true in the EU. But you're welcome to believe whatever you want.

Ouch!! Has anyone seen my head, it seems to have been bitten off??

If anyone needs me, I'll be in the practise room. I have an audition to practise for......

Regards,

Thomas Allely

All Austalian orchestras have auditions that are open to permanent Australian residents (and citizens of New Zealand) in the first instance, actually the first 2 instances. If the position is not filled after 2 "local" auditions then they are open to all comers, regardless of nationality or whichever beer you drink.

The NZ thing is because of a treaty which gives reciprocal rights in many areas between NZ and Australia.

Hope this helps,

Cam

Alex C wrote:

UncleBeer wrote:

Tubadork wrote:OUCH!
Yankee go home

It's that way in Europe too: if you're non-EU, it's almost impossible to audition, much less win an orchestra job these days.

So.... why are US orchestras so willing to let non-residents audition for jobs in this country?

Do Tubenetter's think a reciprocal policy would be fair?

I think of it this way: they don't get the good players from the US to choose from; it's their loss.

As a few people have already mentioned, many orchestras have one or two national audition rounds before they open it up to international competition. This is law in many countries, including Canada.

However, often the organization will hold the national audition as a formality... they know they want an international audition because that can potentially get them the best possible player. They just have the national audition to stay within the law and sometimes the winner of the national audition will get advanced past the preliminary round(s) of the international audition.

So, this is a national audition for the MSO. I don't know if the orchestra is required to have a national audition as part of their laws, or if this is the organization's choice. I don't know if they plan on holding an international audition... but I'd bet they probably will if they cannot find a suitable applicant within Australia/New Zealand.

KiwiTuba wrote:
If anyone needs me, I'll be in the practise room. I have an audition to practise for......

Regards,

Thomas Allely

Do it for New Zealand Thomas!

I couldn't resist...

I would advise people who both read and post on this site to PLEASE ENSURE THAT YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE YOU POST OR REPLY.....

Sorry, but I was rather incensed by the exchange with Unclebeer...

The reality at the moment in the EU is that a nationalist reaction has been created as a result of opening of borders in all other walks of life. Auditions are now not given to non-EU passport holders as a matter of course, for the most part serving to allow EU countries to encourage their own home-grown talent. The Concertgebouw is a case in point...

Without offending anyone, I have to set matters straight with regards to the UK. While auditions have been granted to non-EU people in the past (USA, France, Canada, Spain, etc), the reality is far more closed shop than you realise. The profession here is without question based on ability as well as on pedigree...the two are mutual pre-requisites. Trials are rarely given to those outside of the loop, regardless of audition performance. Add to this that auditions are done without screens and you have a very unique system indeed, but one which without question promotes a very social working environment.

I hope that the above serves to illustrate realities rather than to discourage. My own personal experience (UK and EU) has been highly rewarding and I wouldn't change it for the world, but I truly believe that the only way forward for others is a true appreciation of the realities of a situation as well as a humility and openness to the customs / practises of another culture.

Thus endeth the rant - I hope to that I have in no way offended anyone, but I felt that some clarification was in order.

Alex Kidston

PS Respect to Unclebeer, he KNOWS WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT

I'm sorry Alex and UncleBeer, I just thought that UncleBeer's

"I know for a fact that's not true in the EU. But you're welcome to believe whatever you want."

Was a little bit curt and dismissive. He's absolutely right about it being just about impossible to audition for the majority of jobs that come up in the EU. Most of the jobs that come up on Musicalchairs and in Das Orkester are restricted to EU members only, undeniably. Probably I was a little confused because I was under the impression that some high profile jobs that have come up in the last few years in the EU and US (Berlin, Palau de les Arts, Danish Radio, Frankfurt Radio, Gewandhaus, Concertgebouw, Bavarian Radio, Pittsburg, Cleveland, Philadelphia, Boston) were either advertised as being open internationally or invited foreign candidates to the audition. However, I must have been mistaken. I apologise for any perceived disrespect Uncle Beer, please understand it was not my intention to offend you, but I was just a little bit taken aback to state an honest opinion and have my face slapped in response. I hope you'll find it in your heart to keep me on your Christmas card list this year!

Tubadad wrote:I know for a fact that an American recently participated in the Berlin auditions...last time I checked Berlin is in the EU...

No-one said folks aren't infrequently listened to as a courtesy (see joshwirt's post on previous page); getting an EU work permit (assuming said non-EU candidate wins) is a different story.

(...and folks wonder why pros rarely post on TubeNet...)

Tubadad wrote: I don't know who you are, and I really don't care, but you are pretty damn arrogant and should get your "facts" straight before you go around brandishing your keen intellect and broadcasting your baseless "facts" on this board.

Please submit complaintshere.

KiwiTuba wrote:I'm sorry Alex and UncleBeer, I just thought that UncleBeer's

"I know for a fact that's not true in the EU. But you're welcome to believe whatever you want."

Was a little bit curt and dismissive.

I thought it was (a) direct and (b) to the point.