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harold wrote:Bass trombone is an appropriate double and there are many guys that are pretty good, but probably not good enough to take an orchestra spot since that requires bass trombone skills that are far in excess of what would be required from most doublers.

Not necessarily. It always depends on the musician, not the instrumentalist. I know of many people who play tuba, consider themselves tuba players, but their bass trombone skills are extraordinary. All of the members in the brass family are so close (compared to those of the woodwind or percussion family), the right person could conceivably play each instrument at an equal level. A professor of mine is able to play EVERY instrument in the big band at a professional level, and when we go see him on a gig, it's always up in the air as to which instrument he is playing.

harold wrote:So, what's the point of the first question? Doesn't it really belong on a trombone forum?

In my opinion, tubists and euphers can make great bass trombonists.

Nick

I cleaned up this thread somewhat. Everyone stay on topic and DON'T harass others.

Hey, it's a livin

True Story:

Summer of 1979. Brevard Music Center.
Tuesday Evening Recital: Bach Suite #1 in G for Cello performed by Charlie Vernon on Bass Trombone.

Wednesday Night Wind Ensemble Concert
Frank Martin "Ballade" for Tenor Trombone
Gordon Jacob "Cameos" for Bass Trombone

Back-to-back days. The best live trombone performances I have ever heard. Played both horns equally well.

Along with the Trombone Choir playing the 2nd Movement of the Flor Peters at the end of each Sunday Trombone Choir concerts (if you have been there, you know how special they are), probably the best musical memories of Brevard. The non-musical ones are none of your business, but they ranked up there with the trombone playing. Please realize I didn't say surpass it.

Chuck"nostalgia is a beautiful thing"Jackson

I'm happy to announce that the winner of the audition was Mark Fry. Mark is a freelancer living in Chicago and plays with various groups. A great guy and player.

Pete

harold wrote:What I said was that there are no doublers that play trombone well enough to win an orchestra audition. I then challanged the poster and any of the viewers to name any euphonium or tuba players that double on trombone that have won an orchestra trombone audition.

Jeffrey Peterson, principal trombone for the Jacksonville Symphony Orchestra, was a euphonium player before he got the gig. He is still a very accomplished eupher, and plays the euphonium parts in the orchestra and the JSO hires out for a trombone sub.

harold wrote:It almost doesn't make sense that trombone and bass trombone are considered a double. Why not bass tuba and contrabass tuba? Doesn't that change the union pay scale?

Why not? Bass and tenor trombones are completely different beasts. I have played lead trombone at UNF for years, but I could never play bass trombone. I tried, and gave the spot away in two weeks. I'm sure each kind of tuba has its own thing, and why not pay a tubist more if he can play many different tubas equally well, rather than a CC tuba, and that's it? This seems reminiscent of the argument that trombonists make good euphonium players and euphonium players make good trombonists. Unless you put the same amount of time in each instrument, I wouldn't consider you a doubler. I, on a daily basis, put the same amount of time on upright and electric bass, and euphonium. I do consider both electric and upright basses a good double.

Nick

I'd like to see what Demondrae could do if he got serious about an orchestra job.HE is a badass on trombone.

ContraEuph wrote:And just so you know Harold, I put time on both equally.

And is a beast on both horns.

Nick

MikeMason wrote:I'd like to see what Demondrae could do if he got serious about an orchestra job.HE is a badass on trombone.

Ditto. I think he enjoys his solo euphonium career on the euphonium way too much, though. Who can blame him, anyway? It's going so well.

Nick

Roger Oyster was a euph player in the Marine Band and is now Principal trombone of the Kansas City Symphony.

My experience is, as soon as you say, "It can't POSSIBLY be done," then someone will do it. With that said, I don't know of any examples off the top of my head

harold wrote:FINALLY! One that meets the criteria. Unfortunately he is not a bass trombonist.

To reiterate:

Primary euphonium player that doubles on bass trombone and wins bass trombone orchestra audition.

You seemed to have changed your criteria back and forth. To quote yourself:

harold wrote:What I said was that there are no doublers that play trombone well enough to win an orchestra audition. I then challanged the poster and any of the viewers to name any euphonium or tuba players that double on trombone that have won an orchestra trombone audition.

As a matter of fact, Jeffrey Peterson is one of those people who was a euphonium player and is now principal trombonist of a very good symphony orchestra. Besides, why are we debating this, anyway? Just as it has been said before, just because it hasn't happened, doesn't make it impossible.

Nick

harold wrote:Anyone know a tenor tromonist that auditioned on a tenor trombone for a bass trombone spot and won?

Dave Steinmeyer, lead trombone for the Airmen of Note for something like 15 years before he was bandleader for another decade or so, has been known to do many a bass bone spot in other big bands. Once, he subbed for a friend who loaned him a bass bone since he didn't have his. The horn turned out to not be in good shape, he used his straight, .505" horn to do the job instead, playing false tones for the low stuff. The story goes that he still sounded like he was playing on a large bore bass bone and balanced the section perfectly!

Nick

Getting back on point...

Jeremy Van Hoy, bass trombonist of the Colorado Springs Symphony, is a former Falcone winner on Euphonium, and still may be a soloist on it when the occasion presents itself, as far as I know.

EuphManRob wrote:

BopEuph wrote:Double-high B-flat sounded completely effortless.

If you are ever in the Jacksonville area, take a lesson with him. He will prove that playing high IS effortless. He guarantees a jump in your range by the end of a first lesson. I went to him here and there when I was working on lead bone. According to him, euphonium is easier to play high. I still haven't found it easier to play as high as my .485" bore trombone.

Nick