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Bill Bell?

Postby TYA » Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:44 pm

At 6:30 in this video is that Bill Bell playing his king tuba?]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKPuDNPBVWs&NR=1
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Re: Bill Bell?

Postby tclements » Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:57 pm

Looks like a MW Bill Bell model.
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Re: Bill Bell?

Postby KiltieTuba » Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:30 pm

tclements wrote:Looks like a MW Bill Bell model.

Indeed, it looks a little small for a King Monster
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Re: Bill Bell?

Postby tuben » Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:46 pm

KiltieTuba wrote:
tclements wrote:Looks like a MW Bill Bell model.

Indeed, it looks a little small for a King Monster

I don't believe the Bell model was available until the late-half of the 1960's, Mr Bell left the NYP in 1961.

I think this is the King, notice the LONG valve paddles.
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Re: Bill Bell?

Postby TYA » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:30 am

So that is Mr. Bell on his king? I also agree with the argument for the long rotors.
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Re: Bill Bell?

Postby tuben » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:21 pm

TYA wrote:So that is Mr. Bell on his king? I also agree with the argument for the long rotors.


Definitely to both. The King bell flare is different than the Bell model MW.
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Re: Bill Bell?

Postby travellman » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:22 am

The King. Bell flare, long valve pallets, reversed rotors (like a french horn)--it's not the MW. BTW,that King is not a large as one might think...but oh, so beautiful! Glad to see this video--Thanks!
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Re: Bill Bell?

Postby EdFirth » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:02 pm

Yes, although they're called "Monster Size Basses" the C's were about the size of a Miraphone 186 and the bore was .687 like the current Kings. The Bb's, however were physically huge with the bottom bow as large as a Conn 20J and a .750 bore. I played Joe Novotny's King and it was fantastic. Which, if you've heard him or Bill Bell kind of pops the German huge bore being the only thing that works bubble. I own one of the Bb's and although my knees are screaming by the end of the third one hour show at Christmas as I hold it on my lap, I've never gotten so much feedback while playing any other horn. Those would be an interesting thing to copy with the brass Kanstul is using. I wonder if the Meinl Weston Bell models only lack the right brass. German brass is superb...for German style horns. OK, I'm done now. Ed
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Re: Bill Bell?

Postby Uncle Markie » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:10 pm

That's' Bell and his King CC for sure.

As this from 1958 - a kinescope from live television - it appears as the orchestra players are pretty uncomfortable. First you have Bernstein doing his act, then the players are trying to come in on cue with the hot TV lights (which were brutal back then with the old cameras) in their eyes. Plus it was LIVE. I came in during the time when everything was going from live to tape - even Ed Sullivan was taped part of the season. Lots of retakes with tape on most shows because the sponsors wanted it "perfect". With live you got one shot and out it went over the airwaves - actually easier in some ways - you could get it done and out the door to the next gig - if you had one - or over to Jim and Andy's.

These appear to be shot Carnegie Hall although it might also be the old Belasco theatre (still standing today) which was used for a lot of broadcasts - mostly NBC in those days. The Band of America stuff was all done there. That theatre is out of favor these days because the stage is "shallow" - not enough room for those elaborate sets shows use these days with falling chandeliers, helicopters, et al.

Thank you Bill Paley for putting culture on TV - this wouldn't get on the air today on any of the networks.

Nice to see the old NY Phil crew I grew up listening to again!

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Re: Bill Bell?

Postby tubajoe » Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:43 am

Wow what a great video!

I'll agree, it's probably the King, as it's slightly different than a Bell MW.

I used to play on one of Bell's own personal MWs for a couple of years back in school in the 90's. My teacher had been a student and friend of his, bought it from him, then later sold it to the school. While very similar, it was a bit smaller than the tuba that's in the video (narrower into the bell) and did not have the big paddles/reverse rotors as this one appears to have, and the main tuning slide is wider on the King, I think. Also as mentioned, the date of this video would predate the MWs, probably by about a decade. The MW I used to play was supposedly an early version of the Bell MW (before the 4th valve bore was enlarged) that he used his last season at Aspen, some of the last playing he ever did.
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Re: Bill Bell?

Postby Ken Herrick » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:22 am

It IS the King CC which is not a "Monster". As Bill told me, when he and Oscar from MW were at Midwest in about 66 with one of, if not the first "Bell model" the MW was copied from Bill's horn.

My longer reply disappeared - I'll leave it at this, except to say that horn and the "original" I played on for a while at Harvey's, before I delivered it to a new owner, were both very nice.
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Re: Bill Bell?

Postby Ken Herrick » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:24 am

Yes, that is Bill with his King CC. It IS NOT a King "Monster".

A few TubeNet members have examples of that model.

In '66, or thereabouts, Bill was at Midwest with Oscar from Mienl Weston with a very early MW "Bell" model. I spent some time playing it and really liked it. Bill said it WAS a copy of his instrument which he had loaned to MW to copy.

I only ever played on one of the originals. Harvey had it and was selling it to a buyer in NYC and had me take it down to deliver it. I wanted it myself! No such luck as it was sold. It had just been overhauled but the valves needed lapping to seal properly. If there had been time I would have done it and it would have played much better I am sure.

Found the lost post.....
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