Low notes on the tuba

[LoyalTubist]

Er, um, what did Harry say?

[LoyalTubist]

Beer? Are you old enough?

[iiipopes]

Inconsistency of nomenclature. Outside of brass playing, the pedal tone is known as the fundamental. Since everything is in even fractions, a "double pedal," or a note one octave below the fundamental is theoretically possible, as the horn would be the 1/4 wavelength at that point instead of 1/2, though highly improbable and difficult. But not impossible. Yes, because at that point the vibrations are more in the nature of small bursts of air creating more of a pulse wave than a "sound" wave, yes, it probably would sound like a helicopter.

[Donn]

Inconsistency of nomenclature.

I'll say!

Outside of brass playing, the pedal tone is known as the fundamental. Since everything is in even fractions, a "double pedal," or a note one octave below the fundamental is theoretically possible, as the horn would be the 1/4 wavelength at that point instead of 1/2, though highly improbable and difficult.

I have only head "pedal tone" used inside brass playing, indeed to mean the fundamental (or first partial, same thing.) For woodwinds, strings etc., the first partial is quite strong, and only to brass instruments is it a special low note - for woodwinds, it's just the common first register.

The partials are based on the length of the instrument, divided accordingly: the first partial (fundamental) is the whole length, the 2nd is half, the 3rd 1/3, etc. Notes below the first partial don't get much acoustic help from the instrument.

I suspect that sometimes when people here talk about pedals, they're really talking about the 2nd partial, and the double pedal would be just the real pedal. For a BBb tuba, the real pedal (first partial) Bb is an octave and a half below the bottom of the bass clef.

[iiipopes]

The best way to figure out if you are talking about a "real" pedal tone is to ask if there is a true octave between the "pedal" tone and the next note up you can play with that particular fingering or position. For example, on BBb tuba, the bottom conventional open note, as we all know, is the note 2 ledger lines and a space below the clef, with a pitch of about 58 Hz or so. Then the "real" pedal BBb, or fundamental, would be an octave below that, with a pitch of about 29 Hz. The "double pedal," or the octave below that would be about 14 1/2 Hz, or crossing the line between "hearing" and "feeling" the note. In between are all sorts of "false pedals," like the EEb I get on my sousaphone. Great note, perfectly in tune, but not a true "pedal," as its pitch is 2/3 of the BBb pitch or about 39 Hz or so, not an even 1/2 or mutiple thereof.

[LoyalTubist]

I thought the pedal note was supposed to be the first partial.

When you play pedal notes for the first time they seem lower.

[LoyalTubist]

...you older guys have had a glass or two...

Sorry, but I am a tee totaller.

[tubeast]

In concert band, our director more often than not demands some tubists (say, two out of 7) to take the part down an octave. Talk about LOOOWW Abs.
4th valve combinations come up as a rule even on the BBb horns. In that literature a 5th valve and/or valve trigger is an investment worth every cent.

But that´s a band of close to 100 people.
Community band does great with the usual 4-valve BBbs.

[iiipopes]

Since I play mostly mainstream concert band music, I rarely see even low E's. F is pretty much the lowest consistently written.

In my experience, it's not rare to encounter low Ds, and last year I met Catherine McMichael's Sapphire for alto sax, which asked for the widest range I have ever seen in concert band music -- pedal C to middle C# (that, by the way, was picked out of thin air after 20+ measures of rest in a moderato section, challenging for us amateurs). If the mind I'm losing recalls correctly, Hesketh's Masque also calls for pedal Cs (a REALLY fun piece).

Steve Harsch
BBb 186

I'm glad I sit next to two guys with Miraphones. They can take those notes.

[sloan]

I'm in the midst (as I type this reply) of playing my lowest possible pitch. My lips vibrated three days ago at 9:45:14 A.M...

...another vibration is scheduled next Thursday at 7:32:47 P.M.

I'm sorry, Joe - you seem to be confused about the terminology. One "vibration" consists of an opening and a closing. So...what you meant to say was, "I opened my mouth three days ago and won't close it until next Thursday" - which surprises no one here.

[sloan]

In concert band, our director more often than not demands some tubists (say, two out of 7) to take the part down an octave. Talk about LOOOWW Abs.
4th valve combinations come up as a rule even on the BBb horns. In that literature a 5th valve and/or valve trigger is an investment worth every cent.

But that´s a band of close to 100 people.
Community band does great with the usual 4-valve BBbs.

Gee - in every community band I've ever played with, half the tuba section takes some or all of the part down an octave without the conductor even asking...or knowing...

[iiipopes]

[quote="sloan] Gee - in every community band I've ever played with, half the tuba section takes some or all of the part down an octave without the conductor even asking...or knowing...[/quote]

It's the "without...knowing" that scares me!

[Rick Denney]

Gee - in every community band I've ever played with, half the tuba section takes some or all of the part down an octave without the conductor even asking...or knowing...

Our Christmas-concert guest conductor asked one of us (that would be me, God-help-us) to take a portion of the Greensleeves arrangement down an octave. I figured that once he heard me flatulating around in the false tones of the Holton, he would think better of his request. But no, when we rehearsed it again the following week, he complained that I didn't play the low octave in that stretch.

So, kudos for hearing it (and for being able to hear me play that low), but serious questions about musical taste.

Rick "who plays solo, so low you can't even hear him" Denney

[finnbogi]

I figured that once he heard me flatulating around in the false tones of the Holton, he would think better of his request. But no, when we rehearsed it again the following week, he complained that I didn't play the low octave in that stretch.

At a concert band rehearsal last spring, I took a leaf out of Hartmut Müller's book and played the tuba solo in Florentiner Marsch down an octave, just for fun. The conductor liked it and asked me to do it at the concert as well.

So again, kudos for allowing it, but - again - serious questions about musical taste.

[Albertibass]

for me i can get down to a pedal E...but that is on a GOOD day. on a normal day, id say pedal G