Down fall of Besson

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:30 pm

According to the Besson website, you can only buy instruments which have been made prior to the Buffet Crampon acquisition (meaning there is a group of workers out there who are laid off, hopefully temporarily.) All the tubas are listed but it doesn't say anything about availability.

quinterbourne · Post by **quinterbourne** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:19 pm

I'm sure there are some stores out there that have some Besson tubas in stock. WWBW has some BBb tubas. Places like Dillon Music may still have some as well.

Gorilla Tuba · Post by **Gorilla Tuba** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:19 pm

Certainly, I am no expert on Besson product availability. But it is also difficult to find Dennis Wick/ Steven Meade Mouthpieces right now... especially "Willson" shank.

prototypedenNIS · Post by **prototypedenNIS** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:16 am

don't worry, the tubas won't get cut, the trombone line though...

WorldofBrass.com · Post by **WorldofBrass.com** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:33 am

Gorilla Tuba wrote:Certainly, I am no expert on Besson product availability. But it is also difficult to find Dennis Wick/ Steven Meade Mouthpieces right now... especially "Willson" shank.

Denis Wick has launched his own website and is now handling his own distribution. I guess that there are some new lines of communication that need to be established with dealers but there shouldn't be any problem with locating DW mouthpieces; http://www.deniswick.com

As far as Besson instruments are concerned, the new owners Buffet have said that their intention is to make them at an existing facility in France. Therefore, it doesn't look good for the UK workers that were laid off by Besson prior to Christmas.

JTJ · Post by **JTJ** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:46 am

The Denis Wick site is a joke because it does not price consistently between currencies.

A gold SM3 is priced (rounding) at 76 Euros. But, in US dollars, a gold SM3 is $134. Now, at today's exchange rate, the 76 Euro SM3 should cost $92 US.

And the same SM3 priced at 50 pounds UK should convert to about $89 US.

It's like Denis wanted some goofy system of fixed currency exchange rates which punishes the US dollar. He should fix his amateurish site and price in one currency only. Since almost everyone will pay by credit card, let the credit card company do the conversion at the current rate.

John

prototypedenNIS · Post by **prototypedenNIS** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:55 am

he could provide a link to www.xe.com

Tubaman485 · Post by **Tubaman485** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:14 pm

So what do you guys thinks this means for the value of besson horns. Will it go up or drop way down? Not that I plan to sell mine in the near future but if push comes to shove I wanna get close to the same price I bought it for used.

JB

prototypedenNIS · Post by **prototypedenNIS** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:18 pm

Depends whether the production quality oes up or takes a nosedive.

I wouldn't expect much change in value, it's not a collectible, it's an instrument and 99.99 percent of instruments will do nothing but decline in worth, unless they are worked on by Dan Oberloh

but that costs money.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:01 pm

Regarding the pricing on the Denis Wick website, remember that he is in a country that has to advertise a price with all taxes included for both the British home market and the European Union market. The reason the prices may vary from country to country, and the seeming inconsistency in the exchange rate prices, is the different tax and shipping levels. To ship one to the USA, there would be no taxes, but there may be different shipping charges. If interested, call or email him for a "real" price without VAT.

Regarding tubas suitable for brass band, I'm assuming all of you are talking about compensating instruments, by custom and tradition. Look especially at Mr. Tuba's new tubas, with a review of them at our neighbors, TubaNews.

Buffett-Crampon promises to have the factory back up in eight months. Yeah, right. I'll give it eighteen months to two years. Then they must do something about their valves and teach the guys how to really make and fit them. I'll stick with my 1971 BBb 3-valve comp with a PERFECT valve block and superlative intonation, thank you; even if I do have to do without anything below low E natural.

JTJ · Post by **JTJ** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:11 pm

Re pricing vs. the Wick site, analogously, I've made 5 or 6 purchases from Steve Mead's site. He states the price in UK pounds. I pay by credit card. He runs the charge through. Visa gives him pounds, converts to dollars, and charges me dollars plus a small fee for the conversion.

If it works for Steve, it should work for Denis.

But I understand the tax issue. I may well be paying some VAT I don't neeed to pay when I order from Steve. But there is no logical reason a price quote for a US purchase in US dollars should be higher than the UK price. If anything, it should be lower, excluding shipping.

John

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:41 pm

Not necessarily, depending on supply v demand.

If you do end up paying some VAT, you can always ask for a form to get a refund from the government. They actually do process the form, and you do actually get a check in the mail. Personal experience from doing it since at least 1980.

JTJ · Post by **JTJ** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:07 am

All I want is for Denis to sell me the SM3 for 50 pounds and let Visa charge me $89 plus a small fee. Supply & demand have nothing to do with it. And I don't really care about the VAT. I like the UK and don't mind helping out with my purchases. I just don't want to be charged $134 for something which sells for the equivalent of $89-90 in other currencies.

John

Highams · Post by **Highams** » Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:24 am

An update for Rosehill UK customers concerning Besson Instruments

Besson Musical Instruments (founded in 1837 by Gustave Auguste Besson) were wound-up at the end of December by the administrators, and the UK workforce dismissed.

Buffet Crampon (the renowned French clarinet maker) acquired the right to manufacture a range of instruments using the Besson name from the administrators. Prior to this, Buffet also purchased Antoine Courtois (the French brass instrument maker).

The Courtois factory is based in Amboise, 300 kilometers south west of Paris. The Courtois family founded the business in 1803, and subsequently it was sold to a German company in 1994 (known for their production of instruments under the B&S brand name).

Buffet will now set up new manufacturing facilities to produce Besson instruments. We do not know whether the Besson models will be made alongside the Courtois brand, or in separate factories. It may be that the high brass and low brass are manufactured in separate locations.

Buffet hope to have the new Besson product on the market in September 2006. Rosehill will be stocking the new product for our customers to sample, as soon as it is available. We might, if we may, add a word of caution. To establish new manufacturing takes time, and as Buffet have not purchased the making equipment from Croxley Green, to bring new product to the market as soon as the autumn would be a major achievement.

Rosehill have stocks remaining of the UK-made Besson brass - which is supplied with our own 12-month warrantee, and one year's comprehensive instrument insurance (included in the price); they are supplied without cosmetic warranty.

Meanwhile Rosehill are very pleased to announce that we have augmented our range of professional brass with the addition of a full line of band instruments from Willson. In particular the new Celebration cornet has been very well received and is now being used by players in the UK. Willson instruments are available for testing at our showroom.

CB

prototypedenNIS · Post by **prototypedenNIS** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:48 am

So French Besson will actually mean French?

Jeff Miller · Post by **Jeff Miller** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:40 pm

JTJ wrote:All I want is for Denis to sell me the SM3 for 50 pounds and let Visa charge me $89 plus a small fee. Supply & demand have nothing to do with it. And I don't really care about the VAT. I like the UK and don't mind helping out with my purchases. I just don't want to be charged $134 for something which sells for the equivalent of $89-90 in other currencies.

John

Have you tried emailing Denis and telling him about your concerns? If you want an answer or resolution, that's the way to do it.

Highams · Post by **Highams** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:36 am

Right!

Dennis is a great guy and will help you all he can.

CB