Tuba in Big Band

[tubeast]

These are some COOL pics.
Did I tell you I was considered a nerd in school ´cause I was collecting and exclusively listening to Glenn Miller records at age 13 ?

I don´t own a turntable anymore, but looking at this makes me consider buying one to reactivate those records.

There were two Big Bands at Karlsruhe University. One played Jazz (and did so in Montreux at least once), the other was oriented towards dancing music (Yep, swing too).
The latter gigs on dancing tournaments. I joined them for a very short period, reinforcing the bass ´bone an octave lower. Fun stuff.

[windshieldbug]

That's why everyone is looking his way, because he's leading the group, too.

As I recall from talking with people that had played with Krupa, Kenton, etc. that was just part of the schtick. When the leader was playing you ALWAYS looked his way. Didn't prepare your music, change reeds, look at the next chart, whatever. Having your name on the drum had certain priviliges... including focusing the dancing public's attention!

[tubajoe]

This is the Stan Kenton band in 1963. If you look hazily at the side of the 5th trombone player, you can see a tuba. Stan Kenton, I think, was one of the first to use this kind of doubling.

That's his "neophonic" band... with mellophones!! My fav Kenton CD "Cuban Fire" was that instrumentation. Eventually he even phased out the saxophones. And he also often used ia pile of auxilliary "Afro-Cuban" percussionists.

FYI it is this instrumentation and era of kenton that drum and bugle corps really latched on to, for obvious reasons.

The other is an early pic of Kenton -- I think origninally he did start as a Dance band, but just got more and more progressive as time went on -- eventually turning into a jazz "composer's orchestra" of sorts... bringing to light kick-butt works by Johnny Richards, Hugo Montenegro and others...

[Teubonium]

If you look stage right, you can see the metal bass that TubaJoe was talking about. This is the Stan Kenton band in 1941. There is no tuba player. SK is on the piano. That's why everyone is looking his way, because he's leading the group, too.

Nope...They are looking at the bass player, who is being featured on this number either playing or singing or both! That's why he is at the mike out front instead of back behind his music stand to the geetar's left!

[imperialbari]

This is the Horace Heidt band.

This one is probably a dance band setup too -- but more "orchestral" with those front players being a string section and the back row being the horn players. Notice the two guitars. Probably a greatly expanded setup, for a movie or the likes.

Bing Crosby told, that when he was a young crooner, the union would not accept bandleaders hiring singers as band members.

The workaround was, that the singers were handed out violins with rubber strings. So they were turned into "instrumentalists", which could do no harm when playing. And their main act, the singing, that way was turned into an acceptable-by-the-union side-act.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

[LoyalTubist]

That practice changed very early in the 1930s. You can join the AFM for doing anything musical.

[LoyalTubist]

One group that used a tuba to its greatest potential was Spike Jones and his City Slickers.

I know of two of Spike's tuba players.

One was Joe "Country" Washburn



Country Washburn played tuba with the Ted Weems band in the 1920s through 1942, when he began playing with Spike Jones. (He and Min Leibrook were born in the same year.) He played with the City Slickers from its beginning until about 1950. After leaving the group, he was a music conductor for CBS in Hollywood. He was also known for his singing.

I think the next tuba player Spike had was Roger Donnelly.



I know very little about him and there isn't too much on the Internet, either. I do know that's a Martin recording bass. Country played an upright tuba that had, Ted Weems said, "...a lot of character" (that means dents).

Say what you will about this group but Dimitri Tiomkin said they were the best group of musicians in Hollywood! And he worked with a lot of Hollywood musicians!

[LoyalTubist]

Going a few years before the Big Band Era to the 1920s, here is a list of the personnel of the Paul Whiteman Orchestra. It had two tubas (this would be about 1928 or 1929). If you notice, the way this was handled was that Mike Trafficante was also a bass player and Min Leibrook also played bass saxophone. I believe that Min stayed with the Whiteman band until the tuba parts were phased out. Bix Beiderbecke has mellophone as one of his axes.

We have all seen the payroll of the band from 1928; here is the actual program.

[MartyNeilan]

Had an interesting turn of events this morning. I visited a church with a very well known "choir" that has a horn section as part of its accompaniment. Since I went to college with their new arranger, I talked to him a little afterwards. I could understand him not wanting a tuba, but he has no interest in a bass trombone or even a bari sax - NO kind of lower horn line whatsoever except for very special instances.

[LoyalTubist]

The wife of Mao Tse Tung (or Mao Zedung) hated tubas and forbade them. When Mao died, a horde of underground tubists suddenly emerged!

I would stay away from any church that thinks that tubas are evil. It seems there are some grave theological problems there.

Back to the topic, or actually replying to my last posting in this thread. Bix Beiderbecke lists trumpet as his major instrument, though I am sure he usually played cornet. You realize that he was musically illiterate (he couldn't read music), yet he was phenomenal as a player and a composer (having someone else transcribe what he wrote).

Also if you notice, the Whiteman band had the makings of a tuba ensemble: four euphoniums (from the trombone section) and two tubas. I wonder if they ever thought of doing that--a 1920s tuba ensemble. Of course it would have been four bell-front euphoniums and two sousaphones. But who cares. My imagination is going wild thinking of what they could have done.

[MartyNeilan]

I would stay away from any church that thinks that tubas are evil. It seems there are some grave theological problems there.

I don't believe I said anything of the sort. Relating to this big band thread, I just found it unusual that a horn section behind a large vocal ensemble would not contain any low voice - tuba, bass bone, bari sax, et al. Just up to the whim of the current arranger I guess.

Please do not put words in my mouth as you are apt to do with others. I guess it gets hard to be creative when you post over 10 times a day.

[imperialbari]

Relating to the most recent postings:

The Paul Whiteman personnel list does not load on my computer, and I cannot trace it back to its server.

About using a horn quartet behind a vocal group: the horn also is a very effective bass brass instrument with a range down to the pedal of the F tuba. It doesn’t have neither the punch of a bass trombone nor the wealth of a tuba. But then it has a lot of clarity. Check the score of Mahler 4, especially the last movement. Great fun to play as 4th horn exactly because there are neither trombones nor a tuba.

We plead for the usage of the tuba as part of a varied musical richness. I am all with that point of view. But we also should accept it as part of such varied musical richness NOT to use the tuba.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

[Biggs]

Please do not put words in my mouth as you are apt to do with others. I guess it gets hard to be creative when you post over 10 times a day.

Marty, I always knew you were my favorite member of Tubenet. Thank you for finally broaching what I have been too reserved to say. Someone had to say it!

[trseaman]

Geeezzz Bill,

We've got to find you a day job, a night job or something else to occupy your time!!! 26 postings in this thread alone.

Tim

[Ace]

Loyal Tubist's posts often are interesting and informative, and it matters not to me that he posts frequently. The man has a passion for tuba-related things. For those who are not interested in reading his posts, simply skip over them.

There are others who post with some frequency, and I usually find their material very much worth reading. Examples would be posts by Klaus, Bloke, Dan the Village Tinker, etc.

[LoyalTubist]

Please do not put words in my mouth as you are apt to do with others. I guess it gets hard to be creative when you post over 10 times a day.

Marty, I always knew you were my favorite member of Tubenet. Thank you for finally broaching what I have been too reserved to say. Someone had to say it!

I will be gone for a while.

Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings.

Bill

[MartyNeilan]

About using a horn quartet behind a vocal group: the horn also is a very effective bass brass instrument with a range down to the pedal of the F tuba.
Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

Klaus, mein freund,
by "Horn Section" I meant the American "pop" horn section, not to be confused with a literal french horn section (which might actually work in this context):



Marty "not kicking anyone off TubeNet (well maybe Tuba4sissies)"

[iiipopes]

As in "The Wrecking Crew," "Tower of Power," "TSOP," the current horn sections behind Jay Leno and David Letterman, to name a few.