Silver-plated trombones

Cameron Gates · Post by **Cameron Gates** » Sun May 14, 2006 8:15 am

harold wrote:Eliminate the placebo effect and guess what you have?

The same thing.

Mahillion made a tuba out of cheese and know what it sounded like? A tuba!

Do I believe that musicians are superstitious? Absolutely.

Examples? cryonics, heavyweight valve caps, magic mouthpieces

Me thinks that about covers it.

I have read most of the lacquer/silver threads over the years and have always found them amusing. I believe that there is no way to tell any difference between the two finishes unless there is a large sample to compare. Even in a perfect situation with one horn it seems to me that one can't test the unfinished horn, wait until it is buffed,degreased, and lacquered and play it again, then wait until it is stripped, buffed/degreased and plated with silver and play again without many variables coming into play. What about the buffing process? I'd bet that has more to do with the sound than what finish it ends up with.

2 years ago I went to Custom Music and tried PT 606's. I believe there were 8 there: 3 lacquer and 5 or so silver. I chose 4 to really put under a microscope. I had the luxury of time and trained ears around to help make the final decision, which was nice. Of the final 4, 2 were lacquer. It came down to two - a lacquer and a silver. I could not tell the difference between them to save my life. The others listening could not either. So, of course I bought the silver one. Everyone else has one and I don't want to be different. Yes, I am an idiot.

Back to trombones - About a year ago on Ebay there were 2 Bach 42's in the same shape. One was raw brass and one was silver plated. The raw brass went for $300 more than the silver one. The funny thing is is that the raw brass one still had SILVER on the connecting piece between the slide and the bell. Not nickel, SILVER. A note to the seller confirmed that it was a silver horn before he had it stripped. Bone players are not smart. I would hope that tuba players are smarter.

I say that and I paid extra for silver. I must be no smarter than a trombone player.

Cameron Gates

Tubaryan12 · Post by **Tubaryan12** » Sun May 14, 2006 8:25 am

Ok...I got it! Trombone players don't like silver horns because when they rest the horn on their shoulder they don't want to get tarnish marks on their white shirts.

oldbandnerd · Post by **oldbandnerd** » Sun May 14, 2006 10:24 am

A silver euphonium just looks cool ....DUHHHH !!!

Liberty Mo · Post by **Liberty Mo** » Sun May 14, 2006 10:56 am

harold wrote: The sound is a result of the tube length not the tube materials.

Don't York BBb and Jupiter BBb tubas have the same length tubing?

quinterbourne · Post by **quinterbourne** » Sun May 14, 2006 11:21 am

I do agree that there is no significant difference in sound between lacquer and silver finishes for tuba. That is why you see about an even spread of lacquered and silver plated tubas amoungst professionals.

However, the fact that 95+% of trumpet professionals use silver horns, while 95+% of trombone professionals use lacquered horns, leads me to believe that it must be because of sound. Most pros don't care how their horn looks...

Donn · Post by **Donn** » Sun May 14, 2006 1:10 pm

Cameron Gates wrote:I say that and I paid extra for silver. I must be no smarter than a trombone player.

Dude, you are an artist, get used to it. Rational analysis can only hold you back. Got your heavyweight mouthpiece yet?

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sun May 14, 2006 10:18 pm

Then there are the King Silvertone trombones, which are the same as their historic models, except with a solid sterling bell - most often for the 2B and 3B models.

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Mon May 15, 2006 6:20 am

I might be off subject, but what company was it that made Silvertone trombones for Sears about 35-40 years ago? Believe it or not, my junior high school band had a set of them (1969-71) and they were pretty good.

funkhoss · Post by **funkhoss** » Fri May 19, 2006 1:39 pm

Here's a good article.

http://www.dallasmusic.org/schilke/Brass%20Clinic.html

It was written by Renold Schilke on different acoustical aspects of designing an instrument. The first couple of paragraphs are about the shape of the tubing in an instrument, but by about the seventh paragraph down it discusses both the effect that materials have on the way an instrument sounds as well as what finish is used.

Schilke's conclusions: Silver plating and raw brass sound and play identically, but lacquer changes the way an instrument plays in a rather noticeable fashion. I personally have an Elkhart Conn 62H bass trombone. About a year ago, I stripped the lacquer off of the bell. It made a VERY noticeable difference--the sound was more lively and resonant, articulations were easier and cleaner, and it seemed to "project" better. Some might call this "brighter," but I call it "more efficient." A lot of trombone players don't like that difference, which is why they use lacquer. I believe that one of the custom trombone makers claims that lacquered horns have a "more refined" sound than silver-plated or raw brass horns.

Raw brass is REALLY hard to keep clean, silver plating is a lot easier but still requires polishing, and lacquer is practically "maintenance free" in terms of tarnish. However, silverplating lasts much longer than lacquer, which is the biggest advantage to me.

Sam Funkhouser