Miraphone 1261 Eb tuba?

Alex F · Post by **Alex F** » Tue May 23, 2006 8:46 pm

Has anyone seen or played a Miraphone Model 1261 tuba? I've seen no mention of these here (surprisingly). Apparently, this is a 3+1 compensating Eb with an 18" bell that Miraphone developed for the British brass band market.

Steve Inman · Post by **Steve Inman** » Tue May 23, 2006 9:32 pm

I played one of these once, and didn't personally like the horn. IIRC, it seemed well-built -- maybe even a bit too heavy. Built more sturdily than other (rotary) Miraphones I've played before. I was not impressed by the feel or response of the horn, but I only had a few minutes with it. Maybe others have (had) a better experience to report?

Judging by what I read here, if you want a compensating Eb, you should look first at the Bessons, maybe at the Yamaha. Non-comp rotary = the MW 2040/5 (send a PM to "Jonathantuba" in the UK for more info), non-comp piston = Willson 3400 4+1 configuration or the Yamaha (321 or 381).

Cheers,

Will · Post by **Will** » Tue May 23, 2006 9:43 pm

A friend of mine recently bought one these horns in Baltimore. He loves it! He took it to tuba ensemble rehearsal where another friend of mine played it. He bought one himself a week or so later! My limited experience with this horn prevents me from giving an opinion but my friends love theirs.

fpoon · Post by **fpoon** » Tue May 23, 2006 10:05 pm

I am the aforementioned friend who bought a 1261 after playing the initial one. I LOVE the horn.

I wanted to switch to an Eb because I felt it was a much more versatile horn than a BBb. This tuba in particular. High stuff pops as you'd expect, but its low register totally blew me away. Not stuffy at all. And the intonation problems that seem to come and go are non-existent on this horn, at least the ones I've played (all two of them). I've yet to find a bad note on mine.

I know some of you guys don't like the 3+1 valve set up, but again its just personal preference. Mine is silver plated, and yeah, it is pretty heavy. Especially for an Eb. I'd be happy to answer any specific questions about this horn. And for anyone looking for a horn they can use for small stuff and big stuff, I'd say consider the 1261.

I spent what I consider $$$ for mine, but its the type of horn that can last a player such as myself for the rest of his life and just improve his enjoyment of "recreational" tuba playing. And yeah, I bought it off of a seller right here on the site.

joshwirt · Post by **joshwirt** » Tue May 23, 2006 10:58 pm

Having studied in the UK for a year, I took it upon myself to embrace the EEb and really put it to the test for my playing needs. I was fortunate enough to check out one of the 2 new Besson 980's that the RNCM had just purchased. They were stellar instruments and I really liked them for solo/chamber work. But I was drawn to the 'big bell' of the 981/982 for bigger work. I had a chance to play many Bessons and a few Yamahas, including the prototype 632 that Jim Gourlay helped design....a great horn that I used for my PGDip recital.

A few months after returning to the US, I stopped by Baltimore Brass and just noodled a little on a used Miraphone 1261....and LOVED it! But, I wasn't really in the market at the time since I had the Yamaha at my disposal. Again, I played on it at the TUSAB conference....still a big fan of it. Then, about a month ago, I was finally able to acquire this 1261 and have loved playing it! It's getting quite a bit of use in various chamber work, mostly quintet and I've gotten nothing but compliments.

To me, the Miraphone has the stability and consistency of the Yamaha's scale, as well as having a more open 4th valve. The valve quality is also like the Yamahas and unlike most of the Bessons that I've played, the Miraphone valves WORK! It's larger bore does create a warmer sound than the Yamahas and Bessons, and I like it.

There aren't many of them floating around, but take a chance and play one if you ever get the chance....you won't be sorry!

Cheers,
Josh Wirt

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Tue May 23, 2006 11:36 pm

If you're really serious about an Eb comp, try the new MW made for Mark Carter, aka Mr. Tuba. Great reviews and a good article at the neighbors: TubaNews.

Locky · Post by **Locky** » Wed May 24, 2006 3:35 am

At last a thread that deals with the Miraphone. I have one of the early ones brought into the UK two years ago through Rosehill Instruments. With experience of the common 3+1 compensating Ebs I say that the Miraphone is in a different class. I agree with the earlier post that in the mid to lower registers particularly it has a rich texture which is well suited to orchestral work. That said it is perfectly at home in quintet and military/wind band. I have used it sporadically in a championship brass band with good effect but I suspect that the purists would demand a full Miraphone section for the sound is very different to the Besson.

Yes itâ€™s heavy more reminiscent of the Imperial. The positioning of the 4th valve takes a little adjusting to. Long piston stroke but nimble nevertheless. Watch out for the bottom carriage ring. Rosehill have secured a repositioning into the body of the instrument on the models they supply. I am not into the physics side of the business but the bore is larger than the Besson throughout and particularly the bottom bow & flare into the bell.

It responds well to the Bach 24AW â€“ call me old fashioned! The receiver pretty well swallows it but it is a secure fit. No particular intonation problems.

Itâ€™s big and takes some filling and I suspect would be hard work for once a week rehearsers. I am well placed to directly compare with my 1980s 982 Sovereign, adapted with a low â€œFletcherâ€

NickJones · Post by **NickJones** » Wed May 24, 2006 5:07 am

These Miraphone instruments are something I would like to try , they are used by some top end championship bands , I think just Eb's at the moment , but the Bb British Style is available.
they are also used by HM Forces bands at the moment , so there is a great endorsment. Also Mark Carter has a great reputation for his tuba instruments.
If I am in the market for a new instrument it would be definitly something I would seriously take a look at.

Alex F · Post by **Alex F** » Wed May 24, 2006 3:37 pm

Thanks everyone, some real meaty and helpful responses. I was wondering about how little attention this tuba has gotten here given our propensity to slice and dice just about any horn in existence, past, present and future.

Someone mentioned that there is a BBb version of this tuba and I saw it on the new Miraphone web-site. Has anyone played on of those?

Richard Murrow · Post by **Richard Murrow** » Wed May 24, 2006 4:48 pm

I might be able to offer some additional insight on the Miraphone Eb tuba. There is actually a new version of the 1261 EEb. It has gone into production, to my understanding, during the past 8-12 months. It is part of a series of British style brass instruments called the Ambassador series. I recently purchased a Miraphone 1261 EEb Ambassador tuba. It is absolutely wonderful! I have also played the new 5000M Ambassador euphonium. Also a wonderful instrument!

First about the tuba. It is very similar to the older 1261 with regard to the bell(roughly 18.8"), bore, and overall appearance. My understanding is that there has been some tweaking in the lead pipe, and valve section. I do not know all of the particulars and would not want to speculate. This is the most versatile tuba I have ever played and I've owned a lot of tubas. Great sound, flexibility, intonation, even response, and upper & lower registers!

The euphonium is also similar to the previous model 1258 and 5000M, but with a larger bell, lead pipe, & valve changes. Again, I don't know all of the particulars, but I do know that there will be one at the ITEC in Denver. The sound and intonation on this horn are magnificent! For those of you who will be attending ITEC come to the Miraphone booth and give the euphonium a blow.

Also, Markus Theinert (Miraphone Pres.) will be premiering a new piece by Philip Sparke with the Denver Brass. I am pretty sure Markus will be playing his new 1261 EEb Ambassador tuba for that performance. If you haven't had a chance to hear Markus, don't miss this opportunity. He is a GREAT player! I hope to see you in Denver.

If you live in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area and would like a look at the new euphonium or the tuba get in touch with me and we can "probably" work out some time.

Richard Murrow

fpoon · Post by **fpoon** » Thu May 25, 2006 1:22 am

Richard, where did you get your info regarding the ambassador line? I'm not doubting you or anything, but the 1261 Miraphone that is currently listed on their site looks EXACTLY like the one I have, and I see no mention of an "ambassador line". Is the new line to replace the old one, or supplement it?

Richard Murrow · Post by **Richard Murrow** » Thu May 25, 2006 5:49 am

For fpoon: I got my information directly from the Miraphone folks in Germany, but I think Jonathantuba's link to the web site explains it much better than I can. I will only add that I "think" the new models will replace the older ones, at least with the tubas. As I indicated in the earlier post, I don't think there are any major changes in the overall appearance. It seems that the web sight offers the best explanation. I have only played one of the older EEb's once and that was 3 or 4 years ago, so it would be impossible for me to describe a difference in the playing characteristics between the two. I have been told though that the new model is even more open than the older one. I hope that helps. Again, I love the way this horn plays and I really hope it gets lots of exposure in the U.S.

fpoon · Post by **fpoon** » Thu May 25, 2006 9:16 am

With the M7000 being a 5/4 horn (!) I wonder if Miraphone will keep the 1261 around... But if it blows MORE open than the one thats out now... wow.

Thanks for the info guys!

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Thu May 25, 2006 12:46 pm

cktuba wrote:I really wish they made this axe in a 4 valve in-line front action configuration, heck even 4 valve in-line top action would be OK. I think one of the main reasons EEb is not as popular in the US is the uncomfortable 3+1 configuration-- it works OK on euphonium but reaching around a tuba is a bit more difficult.

If they made an EEb with a 4 in-line valve configuration with good intonation that played as openly as you all are saying this Miraphone does, I might be tempted to sell the Rudy and learn EEb.

Not to mention that it would probably give the Wilson Eb and the big Yamaha F a run for their money in the "5/4 Piston Bass Tuba" category that seems popular in quintets and other small-medium ensemble uses.

Hey Christian - are you reading this thread

fpoon · Post by **fpoon** » Fri May 26, 2006 1:39 am

Personally, the 1261 as is seems big enough for me, tone and horn wise. A 5/4 may be a bit too big for my tastes.

If you want a solid 4 inline valve Eb, check out the Besson 983 (I think thats what it is, the Pat Sheridan model?). The 3+1 doesn't bother me; I actually prefer it. I've always played three valve horns and sort of see the 4th as an added luxury, so if you're flying through a passage and don't want/need the 4th, you can totally ignore it for a bit. And having small hands, I've never felt super good with my pinky finger holding down that 4th valve.

But I agree, it'd be cool for Miraphone to challenge the Wilson and Yamaha's domination of that segment of the market. Competition only makes everyone better.

Richard Murrow · Post by **Richard Murrow** » Fri May 26, 2006 7:42 am

fpoon,

The Miraphone 1261 didn't suddenly become a 5/4 horn. Look carefully at the specs on the web site. The valve bore, bell size, etc. are all still the same. Again, my understanding of the changes that were made were to improve the overall playing characteristics, not to make the instrument larger. It was already a very large EEb. If you are happy with yours, great! It is still the same size horn! Miraphone has simply made some refinements and possibly some improvements over what was already there. Before deciding that is is too large, wait until you have a chance to try one. It plays VERY easily and at least to me seems effortless in every respect. "Try one, you'll like it"