Should conductors be able to hire and fire at will?

The bulk of the musical talk

Should conductors be able to hire and fire at will?

Yes!
17
30%
No!
18
32%
Maybe with some overview.
22
39%
 
Total votes: 57

User avatar
windshieldbug
Once got the "hand" as a cue
Once got the "hand" as a cue
Posts: 11516
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:41 pm
Location: 8vb

Re: Should conductors be able to hire and fire at will?

Post by windshieldbug »

tofu wrote:From my experience in the business world I know that when I've been asked to come in and take over an organization I know that there are going to be people I want to retain and folks who need to go because they are either part of the problem or just unwilling to change and buy into the new concept. I can't imagine how hard it must be to step in as the new conductor of an orchestra and try to execute my concept with somebody else's picks who may not be my cup of tea or unwilling to, if you will, get on the bus.
This may surprise you, but the conductor's job is to conduct, and the player's job is to be conducted.

During the probationary phase, a player will see probably more guest conductors, styles. and interpretations than most non-professionals will ever see in a lifetime. A pro player must know the scores, context, and listen to what everyone else doing so that they can do what the director is directing.
tofu wrote:it seems to me that orchestras would be better served if the players were forced to stay on the edge to keep the seat
In business, this is one way to make sure your employees never fail, but it's one way to make sure that they don't succeed by too much, either
Rick Denny wrote:the union agreements that are now in place are in many ways a reaction to bad management and arbitrary treatment
Exactly.
tofu wrote:We have seen it in sports where some great players retire when they see their skills diminish to the point where they might hurt the team and we have also seen the players who linger on and do indeed hurt their teams. At least in sports players can be benched
Professional playing is not about being able to physically recreate scores accurately. If it was, then music would have been over with the advent of the digital synthesizer. Rather, it is about collaborative interpretation, at every level.
Instead of talking to your plants, if you yelled at them would they still grow, but only to be troubled and insecure?
Mark

Post by Mark »

bloke wrote:The music director of the orchestra with which I perform has this power*.

bloke "who, so far, has not been fired"
When the leader of an organizatioin is really good (e.g. Jack Welch), giving that leader this power will work very well. When the leader is bad (e.g. Jeff Skilling) the results will be disasterous.

The same is true for music directors. It sounds like you have a good one and there are others that I suspect would be very good with complete control of personnel. Though I don't have any personal experience, it sounds like James Conlon might be one. And, I've forgotten his name, but remember the Italian conductor who chewed out the audience in Florida? How would you like to have him running your orchestra?
User avatar
Chuck(G)
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 5679
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:48 am
Location: Not out of the woods yet.
Contact:

Post by Chuck(G) »

I can see it all now--the musicians pack their lunch pails and instruments and head down to the union hall to play cards and wait for a call.

The clerk comes to the window and yells out:

"Sweeny! Mahler 2 at Symphony Hall tonight! See the stage manager"

"Grabowski, grab your tools--yer doing Reed 2 for West Side Story at the Odeon. Rehearsal in 20 mintes."

...
User avatar
windshieldbug
Once got the "hand" as a cue
Once got the "hand" as a cue
Posts: 11516
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:41 pm
Location: 8vb

Post by windshieldbug »

Chuck(G) wrote:I can see it all now--the musicians pack their lunch pails and instruments and head down to the union hall to play cards and wait for a call.

The clerk comes to the window and yells out:

"Sweeny! Mahler 2 at Symphony Hall tonight! See the stage manager"

"Grabowski, grab your tools--yer doing Reed 2 for West Side Story at the Odeon. Rehearsal in 20 mintes."

...
An' at's how Arturo Toscannini ended up under the east end zone at Giant's Stadium...
bloke wrote:The music director of the orchestra with which I perform has this power*.bloke "who, so far, has not been fired"
Which would be no big deal, yourself being a well prepared free-lancer. But which could be a big deal to a well-prepared career musician taking the fall for the inadequacies of a less-than-competent music director
Instead of talking to your plants, if you yelled at them would they still grow, but only to be troubled and insecure?
User avatar
Steve Marcus
pro musician
pro musician
Posts: 1843
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:18 am
Location: Chicago area
Contact:

Post by Steve Marcus »

Mark wrote:I've forgotten his name, but remember the Italian conductor who chewed out the audience in Florida?
I believe that was Daniele Gatti.

Steve "I don't think that his middle name is 'Growing Up'" Marcus
Steve Marcus
http://www.facebook.com/steve.marcus.88
Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia
Albertibass
3 valves
3 valves
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:25 pm
Location: Fort Worth, TX

Post by Albertibass »

Chuck(G) wrote:Why? What did Will ever do?

Image

Image :?: :?: :?:
User avatar
Chuck(G)
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 5679
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:48 am
Location: Not out of the woods yet.
Contact:

Post by Chuck(G) »

Albertibass wrote:Image :?: :?: :?:
Image :wink: :wink: :wink:
User avatar
windshieldbug
Once got the "hand" as a cue
Once got the "hand" as a cue
Posts: 11516
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:41 pm
Location: 8vb

Post by windshieldbug »

Jonathantuba wrote:I think it only right that the conductor should be able to dismiss any player who is persistently not up to the standard of the ensemble. To not do so would be unfair to the other musicians and detrimental to the reputation of the ensemble
And do players have the ability to dismiss a conductor who may not be up to the standards of the ensemble? :wink:
Instead of talking to your plants, if you yelled at them would they still grow, but only to be troubled and insecure?
User avatar
windshieldbug
Once got the "hand" as a cue
Once got the "hand" as a cue
Posts: 11516
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:41 pm
Location: 8vb

Post by windshieldbug »

Doncha need BBb's for those gigs? :lol:
Instead of talking to your plants, if you yelled at them would they still grow, but only to be troubled and insecure?
Post Reply