Yorkaha

[a2ba4u]

Got to play on the yama-york at ITEC the other day. Great horn but the $30,000 (yes, that is the appropriate number of zeros) price tag is more ludacris than Ludakris. According to the rep, they have "a list" of buyers for the 3-4 of these horns that will be available in the states every year. So, anyone here on that list? Anyone not on the list actually willing to pony up this kind of cash? I mean really, it's just a tuba!

Kyle

[Tubainsauga]

This has been said before, but I will repeat it. Compared to string players, $30 000 is not a lot of an instrument. On the other hand, there are perfectly good horns that can be had for substantially less. I tried the horn, but it didn't blow me away any more then a lot of the other horns. Even with the few minutes I tried it I liked the Baer 6450 better. (Alan Baer actually needed it for something and had to take it away.) The one thing I did find about trying horns, is that even if a horn helps me sound better, the amount of work to afford it in the first place is much better spent in the practice room. I'll stick with the horns I have, and get better on them first.

[ASTuba]

hmmmm, I know Baltimore had a used Yorkbrunner for half that. and I recently got my 'cut' York for a sixth...sounds like thats wayyyyyy too much for any horn. leave it to Yamaha to excessively overcharge.

Yamaha is not excessively overcharging. If they're only going to make 3-4 a year, and those people will pay the price tag that Yamaha is putting on these instruments, then why should Yamaha sell them for less?

I haven't played one, but from what I heard, it's worth every penny.

[Doug@GT]

I haven't played one, but from what I heard, it's worth every penny.

...to the person buying it. To all of us who don't buy one, it's clearly not worth that much. But, as you said, since there are only 3-4 made each year, that's not a problem.



Doug "who figures there's a good study in microeconomics to be had here"

[joshwirt]

Yamaha is actually producing 10 of the 6/4 Yorks per year, but only 4 of them will make it to the US. The remaining 6 will be sold elsewhere in the world.

And yes, apparently the first 20 have already been spoken for.....it's just that good.

I heard the CSO last April when they were touring in Europe. It was my first (and only thus far) time to hear that orchestra play live. They did Mahler 9 and Gene was playing his Yamaha that night......and wow, what an amazing sound. I'm sure that he would sound great on a garden hose, but there was such richness and clarity to the sound that I haven't heard from other instruments and other orchestras.

And BTW, I have heard Mr. Pokorny play a recital, a masterclass and wind band solo on the CSO York....and I preferred the Yamaha....

Is $30K steep for a tuba? Maybe. But if your job is to play music at the highest level, it's a bargain compared to the fiddle players.

-Josh

[ThomasP]

I'm not buying one, but I think it's worth the price.

My grandfather always said that something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

If I can sell a penny for 20 dollars then obviously that penny is worth more than a penny...

[Dean E]

Is $30K steep for a tuba? Maybe. But if your job is to play music at the highest level, it's a bargain compared to the fiddle players.
-Josh

Also let's remember that for players who truely make their living playing the tuba, a purchase of this type is tax-deductible, which helps offset the high price tag.

Robert I. Coulter
(who loves buying tools for work since they are tax deductible)

Kind of. Tools are either expensed or amortized. However, when the tool is sold, the money received is taxed as income.

[a2ba4u]

Some interesting repies so far. Just a couple of my own additional thoughts:

1. I don't buy the "at least its not as much as a violin" argument. That's an apples and oranges comparison. I could care less about the costs of violins because I don't play one. Whatever the fiddlists are willing shell out is their business.

2. I agree that Yamaha can charge whatever they want for the horn (assuming that they are sure that someone will pay for it--yay capitalism!); however, in my opinion, this price tag is artificially and unnecessarily high. This said, if there are people who feel that this horn is worth 30 g's and can afford it, more power to them!

Kyle

[Ace]

Some months ago, I attended a cello recital given by a woman who has played in the Los Angeles Philharmonic since 1988. She grew up here in Berkeley, then studied at USC and UCLA, and played with the orchestras in Denver and Oakland before beating out 200+ applicants for her present slot in LA. Her recital here was to "give back" to the community that nurtured her. She had a Q&A session just before the intermission, and some people asked about the cost of her instrument. She responded saying her cello was valued at over $100,000. Further, she said instruments in her LA Phil cello section ranged from $75,000 to $400,000. There was a collective gasp in the audience. So, $30,000 for a tuba? Maybe, maybe not.

[Tom Holtz]

Some months ago, I attended a cello recital given by a woman who has played in the Los Angeles Philharmonic since 1988... she said instruments in her LA Phil cello section ranged from $75,000 to $400,000. There was a collective gasp in the audience. So, $30,000 for a tuba? Maybe, maybe not.

The best-sounding cellos are, by and large, the old ones. New cellos that sound as good as the 300-year-old vintage classic cellos are rarer than the 300-year-old cellos that actually are vintage classics. There's lots of 300-year-old p.o.s.'s on the cello market commanding five figures. Building a great cello is next to voodoo, thus the price tag.

Anyone wants to pay that kind of bread for a tuba, be my guest. You got punked. Congrats to Yamaha for getting everyone riled up. I only hope that the lion's share of the 30K goes to the high-end talent they've lined up to make these horns. Given the current corporate mentality, I'd be surprised if they saw a fraction of that dough. I'd be even more surprised if there's any high-end talent left in the process after a few years of cost-cutting.

Who has actually bought one of these?

[Rick Denney]

...in my opinion, this price tag is artificially and unnecessarily high....

Remember, price is determined by the buyer, not the seller. Nobody is forced to pay anything for a tuba. There are lots of choices.

If Yamaha feels they must set this price because of their costs, then they will stop making them if the price cannot be supported by the market. If they really are marking it up to take advantage of willing buyers, then when those buyers slack off the price will come down.

If the production is limited to 10 per year, then it is Yamaha's fiduciary responsibiliy to sell it to the ten richest people who want one. If production is unlimited, then it is their fiduciary responsibility to find that balance between price and production that maximizes profits. If I were a stockholder in that company and they did any less, I'd be up in arms. Ask Ken Lay what happens when you screw your stockholders.

Rick "who thinks only privately held companies have the privelege of giving away profits" Denney

[Sam Gnagey]

I just played the Yamayork today at ITEC. I have to say that I'm not impressed. I played it directly after playing the Yorkbrunner and just before trying the M-W Thor and the Miraphone 1292. The silver Thor in the Brasswind room and the 1292 at the Miraphone stall both seemed superior in every aspect of playing. I'm not a great fan of the Yorkbrunner. This one has the same foggy low G of it's ilk, but still came out overall on top of the Yamaha offering. The Custom small Yamaha F is another story. It is a great playing small F tuba, perhaps the best F that I've ever played. Just my impressions of the day for what they're worth.

[Steve Marcus]

The Custom small Yamaha F is another story. It is a great playing small F tuba, perhaps the best F that I've ever played.

Sam, the 822(S) is a larger "custom" F tuba, and the 621 is the small model.

Are you referring to a 622 or some other model that Yamaha builds?

What sets this "custom small Yamaha F" apart from other F tubas--including the other Yamaha F's?

[imperialbari]

Why does the US not make truly great tubas, and for that matter truly great saxophones, anymore?

Lack of skills and inventiveness? Hardly!

The makers cannot get their costs covered in the present market, so they don’t make these wonderful old Yorks, Holtons, Kings, and Conns anymore.

And then the US is not especially pricey, when it comes to labour costs. There are countries, where a retired mid-level state civil servant has a higher income than even top players in the DC bands. But also higher taxes and costs of living.

Conn has done some efforts in the 4/4 CC area, but as being reasonably aware of bore progressions I do not like the compromises done around the 4th valve (valve ports smaller than slide bore, terribly sharp bends in the wrapping). It may work well, but it is not ideal. The short bell mounted on the fixed entity of the old King BBb bottom bow also calls for a fast expansion, which should have started somewhat earlier down the bore (the proper term actually may be up the bore).

Still I respect the efforts of Conn and would like to own the 56J version, if my ears would get along with the pitch of CC, which they don’t. I am too engrained in F, Bb, and Eb, even if I have no aural problems with piano, guitar, string bass, and recorders. And then my home is just about full with instruments. The only room not overloaded is the bathroom. But that more is a matter of fluctuating temperatures and moisture levels.

Ain’t gonna buy no Yamabrunner, even if I actually could afford one. Official reasons: Lack of space and a distorted aural relation with the pitch of CC. Real reason: I’m over the hill as a player. It would be a crime, if I acquired a superb instrument being in short supply for high-end players.

I have been quite close to the industry. Makers do NOT earn their money in the market of professional players. 95% or more of high-end instruments are bought by affluent amateurs. And the real money is into the postal order low-end market. Off the shelf, put a stamp on it, and ship it.

This board luckily has witnessed some rebuilds and transformations by geniuses out of Washington State and Tennessee. I am not totally unbiased, as I have done fine business with the town “on the Nileâ€

[Donn]

Wonder if the Weril copy is going to be any good?

[imperialbari]

If a Weril copy exists, please give a link for some photo documentation.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

[Donn]

If a Weril copy exists, please give a link for some photo documentation.

That was sort of a joke, though of course Weril's line of tubas does bear a resemblance to some Yamaha models. This copy would be an interesting statement, but I'm sure Weril doesn't have the margins to fool around like that. Their market is looking for value in less ambiguous terms.

[Barney]

The Custom small Yamaha F is another story. It is a great playing small F tuba, perhaps the best F that I've ever played.

Sam, the 822(S) is a larger "custom" F tuba, and the 621 is the small model.

Are you referring to a 622 or some other model that Yamaha builds?

What sets this "custom small Yamaha F" apart from other F tubas--including the other Yamaha F's?

Sam is referring to the Yamaha 821 I believe. This is a tuba designed in conjunction with Roger Bobo and based on the 621, except that it has a larger bell, a different leadpipe and is wrapped slightly differently. I don't think it is widely available in the US, although there was one at hornguys.com a while back. I think there is still a picture on that site.

[Sam Gnagey]

That's the horn. Great low register and sings up top.

[Barney]

Getting back to the 6/4 CC's....

It seems the Baer model went over well.

Was there any price quote given on that horn?