How much of a disadvantage is it having 4 valves on a CC?

jmerring · Post by **jmerring** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:07 pm

To my knowelege, the only disadvantage is from the point of not being able to chromatically descend into the 'bowels of the earth' and stay easily and completely in tune. I stress the word easily, because it can be done, once you know the tuning quirks of your horn and the needed slide pulls/lip maneuvers to correct them.

Again, as far as I know, the Cerveny Piggy is a very adequate horn and will serve quite well, in lieu of the "horn of your dreams."

Jim (Where are we again?) Merring

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:20 pm

A horn with good False Tones, also called Privileged Tones, (typically horns with a medium bore and large bell) can make a 5th valve unnecessary in the lowest range. I am unsure of how accessable the false tones are on a Piggy. However, there are still the intonation issues such as 2-4, 1-4, or 1-2-4 combinations that may require more slide pulling than on a 5th valve horn. Personally, I always liked low F on a 4 valve CC as 1-2-4 pushed in instead of 1-4 pulled out. Remember that if you find "THE" horn, that a 5th valve can usually be added later on, for somewhere around a grand.

TonyTuba · Post by **TonyTuba** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:42 pm

real men can play with only 4 valves....and would never do it on a piggy.

t

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:28 pm

On CC tuba, there is only one note that is really annoying for me to play without a fifth valve: C#/Db just below the staff. It happens often, and the 235 combination gets it in tune so easily. For the lower notes, there is both more flexibility in bending the notes with your lips, and things are generally slow enough for easy slide manipulation.

For lower notes, I also use the fifth valve on my tuba. From most commonly to least commonly: F#/Gb (235), F (45), D#/Eb (345), D (1345), and C#/Db (12345+pull). [Different tubas will require different fingerings.] I also will use "false" tones sometimes, but that's worth a whole other discussion. Without a fifth valve, I just use different fingerings, slide pulls and false tones (if the tuba supports them -- not all do).

I prefer five valves on a CC tuba, but I have managed to play a four-valve CC without much trouble. If I were stuck for money, I would certainly consider getting a four-valve tuba. I would also consider having a valve or two vented and the corresponding slides lapped for easy moving.

Good luck!

Allen Walker

WoodSheddin · Post by **WoodSheddin** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:32 pm

Tubist of Time wrote:I am looking now for an inexpensive CC horn until I get through high school. How are the "Piggy" model Cerveny's? Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I assume you are shopping used? If you are shopping new then you can do much better in the used tuba market and end up with a better horn.

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:26 pm

Tubist of Time wrote:I am looking now for an inexpensive CC horn until I get through high school. How are the "Piggy" model Cerveny's? Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks in advance.

One advantage to a used Piggy (or even a four-valve Miraphone 186) would be that you can try it out and then get your money back if you find you can't manage it without the extra valve. Even if you lose a couple of hundred on the resale, it costs nearly nothing to use it as a learning instrument.

Cerveny nuts seem to prefer the 80's and older Piggies to the newer ones.

Rick "who can't play well enough, low enough for the lack of a fifth valve on his BBb to be a problem" Denney

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:44 pm

PhilW. wrote:I think that a fifth valve is a nice feature to have, especially on a CC tuba, just out of convenience. No more slide pulling,

Well, many 5 valve CC tubas are still going to require some slide pulling anyway. There are not a whole lot of CC's out there that will play every note top to bottom perfectly in tune without any slide pulling (or lipping).

Mudman · Post by **Mudman** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:12 am

"How is the Miraphone 184 CC? There is a used one for sale on this site that I am strongly considering. It sounds to be the perfect solution to my playing types. It supposedly has an F tuba feel with CC depth. That would sound to me like it would be good for both medium/large groups and solo. Any opinins on this horn?"

The one for sale on this site has 5-valves and the 5th valve uses the older 2-1/2 step system. (If I remember correctly after communicating with the seller). It was some kind of a demo horn before the seller ended up with it.

Doug@GT · Post by **Doug@GT** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:05 pm

How is the Miraphone 184 CC? There is a used one for sale on this site that I am strongly considering. It sounds to be the perfect solution to my playing types. It supposedly has an F tuba feel with CC depth. That would sound to me like it would be good for both medium/large groups and solo. Any opinins on this horn?

Why high school band director bought one of these (4 valve model) when he was in college, and still uses it for large concert bands and in the local Orchestra down here. Seems to work just fine for him.

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:56 pm

"How much of a disadvantage is it having 4 valves on a CC?"

A pound or two!

As good 3 valve CC's are hard to come by, you will have to find a good repairman specialising in removing the 4th valve from CC's.

Rumours have it that there is one in Memphis (on the Nile that is). The others would be in Ulan Bator and in one of the western suburbs of Nome.

Klaus

PS:

eBay has offers on 3RV Peterborough CC's from time to time.

TubeNet

How much of a disadvantage is it having 4 valves on a CC?

CC 4 valve

Re: How much of a disadvantage is it having 4 valves on a CC

Re: How much of a disadvantage is it having 4 valves on a CC

Mirafone 184