Style over substance and the golden mean....

ASTuba · Post by **ASTuba** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:35 am

Daniel C. Oberloh wrote:WARNING- Blunt reality statement: Most new Techs barely know enough to tell you where the business end of a dent hammer is let alone how to properly repair a damaged valve casing or expertly repad an oboe. After completing a year long "technical college" OH WOW! program, most start working in a shop for a music company repairing rental horns. Many quit with in five years because they find the job tedious and not paying as well as other available work. I personally think it is because they are simply not cut out for this line of work. I mean, you can have all the fancy brushes and paint but that doesn't make you an artist. The part they don't understand is that time spent working in these places is where one builds speed and knowledge through observation and first hand experience on the bench. The speed, skill and better pay comes with time, like most skilled jobs. I am sorry you had such a hard time of it Andy, I hope eventually you will be able to return to the trade and give it another shot.

Dan,

I never have had any problems working on rental stock. I did it for over a year at Music & Arts in Atlanta, and actually was glad for it. Got my speed a lot better.

My biggest problem is that music store owners feel like repair isn't profitable, and therefore don't invest any money into it. When I left my last job, I was so sick and tired of begging for money for things like a vise that actually will hold a mandrel without rotating or moving, or pads and cork, which is why I just decided to walk away.

I'm not in a financial position to start my own business, although it's something I thought about long and hard, but I also realize that I don't have a 100% clue of what I'm doing, I've only been repairing for 3 years!

I hope it works out for me as well, but no bitterness here if this is the end.

ASTuba · Post by **ASTuba** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:56 pm

Henry wrote:On the other hand, based on a sample of the two items I bought from you on two occasions and only on that small sample, and with the full acknowledgement that your shop was willing to have an item shipped back and make it right when contacted though I chose to make it right myself, I'm still mad that a shop which touts its quality endlessly sent me a great looking horn with rotten guts and a similar mouthpiece on two separate occasions. Its a 100% failure rate in that small sample and though you may regard trumpets of less worthy of attention to detail than the majestic constructs of the low brass world I would have thought quality, where it shows and where it doesn't, counts.

Sounds like something that should be left to the two individuals involved and nobody else.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:04 pm

At the most, I think one rant should do it.

Daniel C. Oberloh · Post by **Daniel C. Oberloh** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:34 pm

Damn right I "tout quality endlessly" and I stand behind every piece of work that my shop produces 100% and if a customer is *ever* not satisfied for *any* reason whatsoever I will *always* make it right or refund their money. Period. I do strive for perfection and although I attain it most of the time, I am a mere mortal and fall short of that mark on occasion. If a trumpet went out of my shop with problems all I can say is, it shouldn't have happened and had you returned the instrument we would have made it right. No ifs, and or buts!

But let's cut to the chase. It sounds like your real problem with me is that I insist on embracing the ideals of quality, integrity and a love of the craft (even though I may occasionally fall short of the goal) and would like to see other repairmen hold themselves to the same ideals. My posts here typically focus on respect for the craftsmanship of the trade, the instruments, the history and the musicians - not how great a repairman I might think myself to be.

Again, if you have a problem I can actually do something about, please feel free to contact me.

Daniel C. Oberloh
Repair Technician to the Stars (Floyd and Emma Star, summering in Tokeland Wa. at the Annual (sort of) Jerry Garcia Memorial Singalong and Clambake) (tie-dye optional)
Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works
www.oberloh.com

ASTuba · Post by **ASTuba** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:08 pm

harold wrote:
Henry wrote:You on the other hand, show every sign of being an ***.
As far as asses go, you can bet that you aren't even in my league. That doesn't even begin to address the point that you elected to make by making this thread personal.

By your own admission, he gave you good viable options that you chose not to exercise. Then instead of contacting him outside of this board, you try to humiliate him in a public forum.

I still believe that Dan Oberloh even on his worst day doing poor work is far better than most all others on their best day. The guy is as honest as the day is long.

You on the other hand are starting a post by complaining about a job that was performed years ago. I happen to know a lot about the specific instrument in question because I purchased it from a junk shop in Allen, Michigan. Compared to what it was when I bought it, it was a thing of beauty when you did and the price on it wasn't nearly what I thought it should be.

What you are forgetting is that while it looked like new, it in fact was decades old. Dan I'm certain was willing to do whatever it took to do right by you. For you to claim that you were somehow "manhandled" by his shop is far less than honest. The most amazing thing about capitalism is that you can spend your dollars anywhere you like - even at the local shop where they do some band instrument repairs. Obviously this is the best option for you.

The only thing that I can figure is that you are trying to play this horn with the wrong part of your anatomy.

Guys,

Listen, if you're going to keep discussing this in a public forum, it's only going to make all of you look like asses. Take it off of here, no one cares!

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:35 am

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:27 pm

When someone airs a gripe about a particular commercial transaction in public, I frown, shrug, and walk away. It's the same response to someone smoking in an elevator, or having a loud, lewd conversation in a restaurant.

There are much better avenues for rectification, including working it out directly between the parties, seeking mediation, and taking legal action. A public gripe is not an efficient righter of wrongs and most often brings about results unfair and disproportional to one party or another (or both). There is no way for the Tubenet Freak Jury to know or obtain all the facts, even assuming we would know what to do with them.

That doesn't mean it's inappropriate to talk about repair philosophy, and whether it is possible to find an effective middle ground between perfect craftsmanship and minimal competent playability. I suspect good techs are capable of both, but some are so skilled and in demand that they are unwilling to waste their time on minimal repairs, and some are happier to keep more instruments playing than to spend inordinate hours striving for cosmetic perfection. We've had many discussions like these in the past, without naming specific cases. We have technicians of undeniable competence across the range of those philosophies participating in these conversations.

Henry, when you specifically mentioned the horn in question as you did in your first post, you named names. Sorry, but that's how I see it. But you others, who didn't just shrug and walk away are just as guilty of making it personal. The Freak Jury should know its limitations, even if someone tempts them to pass judgment.

Rick "who hasn't found perfection yet" Denney