ISSUE RESOLVED!!Any tips on comparing two tubas?

[tbn.al]

I think I'm going crazy. I haven't been satisfied with my little BBb quintet horn for some time. I've been looking for a suitable BBb replacement but there are not too many choices. I finally found a Yamaha 621 BBb and have been alternating between it and my old Miraphone 184 BBb for a couple of weeks. My problem is that which ever horn I have in my hand at the time is clearly the best in my mind. I've made lists of characteristics and ranked them. I've had my quintet members, and anyone else that would listen, compare them. Still no clear cut choice. I have finally decided to put the 184 up for a month or two, play the 621 exclusively and start the process all over. Any ideas? What am I missing here? Don't say buy a CC because at my age learning a new set of fingerings will just confuse my bass trombone playing. One of these horns will be for sale by Christmas.

[cjk]

If it were me, I'd choose the 184 over the 621 anyday.

Me too.

[iiipopes]

Having played in bands a Yamaha in undergrad and a Miraphone in grad school, one word: Miraphone.

[imperialbari]

There are objective standards to go by:

First of all the general level of pitch. A too sharp or a too flat instrument will take you nowhere.

The scales (being in tune with itself) shall be manageable. I care no s**t about flat 5th and 10th partials, because they can be re-fingered. But all octaves and fifths have to line up.

From there on I can give only one advise: Go by your guts!

They will point you in the right direction.

If you should happen to suffer from the same disease as me (being an ensemble person before being a player), then there might be one more parameter to consider.

Because of decreasing abilities at moving around I ended up playing in ensembles, which had one main quality: they were local.

Conductors had to be kind not to offend less capable players. Much may be said about me, but I am not kind, when it comes to badly performed music.

I used two tricks to improve the situation:

I wrote a lot of arrangements, which cancelled out some problems.

I made sure to bring equipment, which emanated a very firm overtone structure. Without being pedagogical or the opposite that forced lesser ears to line up. A good mid-low brass player aside of his/hers obligations inherent in the given part has to provide a frame of reference in matters of ensemble intonation.

It is my experience that piston tubas invariably are better at that task than rotary tubas as long as we speak of high quality instruments. Some may call their sound bland. I will not challenge that statement. But then try to have a listening down through the ensemble and try to hear what kind of tuba which will do the most for the ensemble.

Knit pickers will say, that I am kicking my own shinbone (a Danish saying) because I have written exuberantly about the horn-trombone-tuba unity of sound and balance in the Triton brass 5-tet, while Jobey(?) still played his B&S F-tuba. But that gall and those guys are a few categories beyond most of us anyway.

Ones own immediate musical phenotype isn’t always the most important thing. Ones impact on the ensemble should be counted a factor in the overall equation.

Does Miraphone make musical instruments? Not necessarily a bad joke, if we are speaking about for-real-music.

I most definitely recognise, that they have done a lot for the mid-level market.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

[tbn.al]

I really appreciate these well thought out and well articulated responses. They are very thought provoking. You have all obviously felt my pain. I have come to the conclusion that if it were just me playing solo I would keep the Mirafone. I haven't come to that firm a conclusion with regards to the ensemble yet. I am going to play the Yamaha exclusively for a while to see if I can bring myself to tolerate the what you guys call that "bland" sound. It certainly is easier to play, easier to blend with and has better response, but I do love that Mirafone sound. Wish me luck. I'll let you know how it comes out.

[tbn.al]

I finally found a way to make a decision and the right one for me. I put the 184 in it's case and played the Yamaha exclusively for 6 weeks. Last week I got the 184 out and within 5 minutes I was in love again. I sold the 621 to a guy in San Franciso for what I paid for it and am happy as a lark. I just could not make that Yamaha sound like a Mirafone no matter how hard I tried. The Yamaha is more agile, more responsive and better in tune than the Mirafone. In fact it beats the Mirafone in all other aspects of playing except the only really important one, my ear. My quintet also likes the Mirafone better. I'm just glad that this ordeal is over. This forum is a great resource. I really appreciate all the comments and suggestions. I used a lot of it.

[Chriss2760]

This one hit pretty close to home for me, too. I've been playing the 621 in BBb in my quintet for about 18 months now, and have been having some second thoughts. I posted here in regard to it last week. When I bought my Yamaha I was basically looking for a sound similar to what I get with my 186, but with less presence, and in a more convenient package. But that isn't what the Yamaha is. Consider that the Yamaha is A), conical, not cylindrical in bore, It's B), a compact horn with the leadpipe soldered directly to the bell, and maybe C), unlacquered (if you bought the silver finished version,like I did) and you may come to the conclusion that this is an altogether different horn than your 184. The Miraphone has that wonderful resonance and dark, german sound. But depending on the literature your quint is playing, that may not be what you are looking for. I like the crisp, clean very un-Miraphone sound in the chamber music setting.
The other major consideration (maybe the biggest, for me,) is which do you like playing better? I like having the variety that the 3/4 piston horn gives me, because I play my 186 a lot. And I like not having to schlep such a big horn around.
Just my $.02 worth.
You will let us know what you decide.
Chris.

[Chriss2760]

Oops. Just saw the last post. I guess you resolved you problem.

[evan]

... Consider that the Yamaha is A), conical, not cylindrical in bore, ...

Maybe I'm misreading your post, but I pretty sure a conical bore is fundamental to the definition of a tuba whether it's a Yamaha or Miraphone.

conical bore: cornet, flugelhorn, french horn, euphonium, and tuba

cylindrical bore: trumpet, trombone, baritone

Do any cylindrical bore bass instruments exist? Maybe a cimbasso??

-Evan

[windshieldbug]

OK, lets get technical. NOTHING is all conical or cylindrical in bore but an organ pipe! Horns have some cylindrical slides, and trombones have a bell flare, for example. And modern trumpets get more like cornets all the time.

Mostly conical in bore: flugelhorn, horn, euphonium, and tuba

Less conical in bore: cornet and baritone

Very cylindrical in bore: trumpet, trombone