Cerveny Piggy

tubacdk · Post by **tubacdk** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:31 pm

I owned an older Cerveny Piggy for a couple years and during that time it was my most-used horn. it was lightweight, easy to play, and EVERYONE loved the way it sounded. I only sold it because it made sense to me at the time, and now I often wish I had it back. the pitch required some attention, but it wasn't hard to work out. the response was a little uneven, but still very workable.

I would like opinions on sound, construction, and value.

sound - A
construction - B
value - A+++

I paid less than 2k for mine and earned many many times that playing it during the time I had it.

bort · Post by **bort** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:52 pm

I remember reading a quote on here a while ago, something to this effect:

"The best and worst horn I've ever played on was a Cerveny Piggy."

winston · Post by **winston** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:02 am

MileMarkerZero · Post by **MileMarkerZero** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:03 am

I had one. I replaced it with a 56j.

My thoughts:

Great sound. Just not enough of it under a big ensemble. Also wish it had a 5th valve. Mind you, I was by myself trying to support a 45-piece community band. If you have reinforcements in the section, it's a good horn. Smaller ensembles, great. Might be nice for some lighter orch. work. Wouldn't want to try Tscaik or Prok on it, though.

eupher61 · Post by **eupher61** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:29 pm

I played a Piggy as the only tuba in a 50 pc wind ensemble, with no problems re: projection.

That was an especially good Piggy, though. I had almost no pitch problems, but I did have a throw mounted on the first valve slide for those rare moments. It had been retrofitted with ball and socket linkage.

If you're considering buying a Piggy in either key, be sure to give it a really good test run before buying. No matter if it's old or new, the consistency of a Piggy is celebrated as minimal--IOW, they're inconsistent. Badly inconsistent. If you find a good one, it's a keeper. A great one and you're home free.

No, it's not a Yorkbrunner. It can support an orchestra, band, glee club, dixie band, and is still nimble enough for Bozza and Effie.

Mike Finn · Post by **Mike Finn** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:49 am

OK, I'll admit I've always been a little confused about this... the "Piggy" is the CCB 603, in CC, right? Is there an identical version in BBb as well? Or is the CBB 683/783 the BBb "Piggy"? Because the 683 cas a considerably smaller bell, and the bore and overall height is diminished as well. Can someone clarify this conundrum for me?

For reference, below is a pic of the BBb 783, followed by the CC 603.

Thanks for any help with this!
MF

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:55 pm

Bob1062 wrote: I think a double trigger system operated by the thumb (flat and sharp), would be neat, if only in theory.

Reynolds has been there and done that in 1958.

eupher61 · Post by **eupher61** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:01 pm

Bob1062 wrote:There's also other manufacturers that make "piggy" type tubas.

the Piggy moniker is nothing official. It was given to a specific instrument owned by a Sear student, IIRC. (anyone know the realities of that tale?) It's come to be used for the Cerveny-made compact tuba, fairly large bore but tightly wrapped, such as is seen in the pics above. They are marketed with many different names, but made on the same lines, just stenciled with various names. You won't see "Piggy" in a catalog, I think. But, yes, some other mfgs make similarly wrapped, relatively large bore tubas.

Low end, like everything else on a Piggy, can be great or miserable.

My slide kicker was a trumpet slide saddle, it ran down the right side of the first slide, on the inner edge, so I could put my hand through the tubing, have a good handhold, and work the slide easily. Reaching over the top bow to just grab the slide worked, but it was never really comfortable.

eupher61 · Post by **eupher61** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:01 pm

Bob1062 wrote:There's also other manufacturers that make "piggy" type tubas.

the Piggy moniker is nothing official. It was given to a specific instrument owned by a Sear student, IIRC. (anyone know the realities of that tale?) It's come to be used for the Cerveny-made compact tuba, fairly large bore but tightly wrapped, such as is seen in the pics above. They are marketed with many different names, but made on the same lines, just stenciled with various names. You won't see "Piggy" in a catalog, I think. But, yes, some other mfgs make similarly wrapped, relatively large bore tubas.

Low end, like everything else on a Piggy, can be great or miserable.

My slide kicker was a trumpet slide saddle, it ran down the right side of the first slide, on the inner edge, so I could put my hand through the tubing, have a good handhold, and work the slide easily. Reaching over the top bow to just grab the slide worked, but it was never really comfortable.

IkeH · Post by **IkeH** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:54 am

I own an older CC piggy, matter of fact, CDK's old horn from the 1st page of this thread. I'm quite happy with the sound, intonation is managable, and just think "air" and you have a sound. The pig and I like the MF2 that Mike Finn sent me with the smaller shank(it has the small receiver end from the 60's and no serial no.). It's based on the Bach 18 and has a nice easy resistance and really helps to fill the room. Worked on and maintained by Lee Stofer(when he was in Atlanta). If you want to hear a good example of how one sounds with a quintet, listen to Chuck Knox on Center City's 1st CD. So Chuck, I guess I'm back playing it again.

Ike

tubacdk · Post by **tubacdk** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:09 am

IkeH wrote:So Chuck, I guess I'm back playing it again.

that's great to hear. I'm not sure if I filled you in on my equipment changes since I got your RM... I sold your RM (what a horn!), my 5/4 MW and my B&S F and I'm now playing a Nirschl 4/4+ CC and a Gronitz piston F. I still miss having the Pig for strolling gigs, but otherwise I'm really happy with the horns I've landed. Glad the piggy has kept its worth to you!

-ck

Mike Finn · Post by **Mike Finn** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:52 pm

Check out http://www.mrmegstubas.com
That's where I got the pics that I posted earlier in the thread.

MF

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:08 pm

Bob1062 wrote:I noticed he has a miniball linkage option; is that much better than whatever's already on there?
Are these things really super delicate (thin metal)?

They come how they come in terms of linkages. Older ones have S-linkages, and many had really cheap ball-joint linkages using 2-56 threaded rod. But they are easy to replace with 4-40 threaded stuff at low cost.

Cervenys have always been delicate. The brass is thin and soft and dents easily. I had a Sanders/Cerveny 4/4 BBb tuba back in the 80's and it dented if you breathed on it.

The Dalyan Prague is a Bb copy of the compact Cerveny BBb, numbered 683. The one I played was a very decent instrument--probably not as good as the best of the Cervenys, but certainly better than the worst of them. These are not, however Piggy-model CC tubas. The Piggy is distinguished by a large bore (.827") and small outer branches with a 16" bell. The Bb compact models have a .787 bore, and I think it makes a difference.

And "Piggy" did and still does appear in Cerveny product literature in reference to the 603. Even Custom Music used the term in relation to their Sanders/Cerveny stencils. I've seen it in Cerveny literature going back at least to the early 80's, which is still later than when Walter Sear was stenciling them. Here's a picture of the 603 Piggy from the Amati-Denak (Cerveny) website:

By the way, I played next to Bob Pallansch about three years ago, and he was playing a Sear-labeled Piggy. It surely wasn't causing him any problems.

Rick "who has played nice Piggies and real oinkers" Denney