Old Besson EEb- What Mouthpiece?

[Will]

I will be coming into possession of a Besson EEb. Not sure how old it is. It's a small model. Last time I saw it/played it was over a year ago. I do remember that every mouthpiece I had wa too big for it. I'm guessing it's a euro shank?

Any info on the correct shank and best mouthpiece would be great. And if you have one of these mouthpieces lying around, I would definitely be interested in obtaining it soon.

Thanks

[Chuck(G)]

Nope, it's a small shank--"Euro" shanks are large.

Something like a Denis Wick 2 or 3 (not a 2L or 3L) should work just fine. I believe the original mouthpiece on some of these was a Besson 14.

[windshieldbug]

Older Eb's had a size all their own... North American and Euro were the same, but smaller than modern. The best I can describe it is somewhere between a tenor trombone shank and a BBb tuba shank... sort of what a bass trombone has today.

My guess would be that one o' them cavernous buzz-saw bass trombone mouthpieces would work just fine!

[iiipopes]

The mouthpiece that came with Besson Eb for years was the Wick 3. The Wick 2 is too large a diameter and has a rounded cup that doesn't fit the tone of the Eb well. A lot of guys like a Bach 24AW. I tried a Mike Finn MF4, and if you like a really rounded but not too wide rim it has a superlative tone, I just didn't get along with the rim.

For me, only playing Eb for a minor supporting role doubling octaves once every couple of years, the Wick 3 did just fine.

A friend of mine whose main instrument is bass bone gets a fantastic sound out of a Wick 3L and a MW 11 upright valve.

[Chuck(G)]

The mouthpiece that came with Besson Eb for years was the Wick 3. The Wick 2 is too large a diameter and has a rounded cup that doesn't fit the tone of the Eb well. A lot of guys like a Bach 24AW. I tried a Mike Finn MF4, and if you like a really rounded but not too wide rim it has a superlative tone, I just didn't get along with the rim.

Depends on how old said tuba is--could well be older than Denis Wick mouthpieces. Besson had their own models--I've still got both Besson 14s and 24Ws. I believe a Kosikup was also provided at one time.

FWIW, a Wick 2L came with the 983 that I swapped for my Willson.

[iiipopes]

Indeed about the mouthpieces.

But a 2L with your 983? Must have been a mistake.

[Steve Inman]

The mouthpiece that came with Besson Eb for years was the Wick 3. The Wick 2 is too large a diameter and has a rounded cup that doesn't fit the tone of the Eb well.

Actually, I don't have this same viewpoint, but I understand where you're coming from. Especially with a more modest Eb, it just seems out of character to use too large of a mouthpiece. It hasn't been stated if this is one of the 15" bell Besson Eb's, or one of the 2-20 or 777 3/4 Eb tubas with a 12" bell (VERY tiny).

If this happens to be the 2-20 or 777, I would recommend something even smaller than mentioned above, say a Wick 4 or 5. A Wick 3 might work. But if it's the 15" bell model, then I think you have a few larger options that you can consider.

(Disclaimer, when I purchased my Besson 983 about 10-12 years ago, it came with a Wick 3(3L -- the larger shank for that particular horn). But I had always played larger sized mouthpieces and that one just felt too small to my face. I ended up buying a 2 and a 1, and used both depending on the music, the size of group, and whether I was playing inside or out.)

With my YEB-381 (15" bell) I typically use the standard Conn Helleberg, which allows me to get a bigger, fuller sound from the horn which my quintet likes. The Helleberg is a bit bigger than the Wick 1, but the throat is probably a bit smaller. Were I to use the Yamaha Eb to cover a 2nd 'bone part, I would likely switch to my Schilke Helleberg or to the 7B Helleberg -- both about the same size as the Wick 2. If I had a Wick 3 I would gladly use it. I do have a 24AW, but don't like the wider rim.

What I would NOT do, is to try my Parke Offenloch mpc, a PT-88 or other monstrous mpc with this horn, so I agree that there is an upper limit to a "sane" choice. But I find with my size Eb that there is a place for a larger mpc than would be traditionally chosen.

It is a true statement that many British Brass Band players like to use a mpc the size of the Wick 3 or the Bach 24AW with their Eb tubas. This evidently results in the "expected" sound for an Eb in a BBB setting. But my approach has been to choose the mpc to get either a fuller or more focused sound, depending on the musical need. And I think that an Eb tuba with a 15" bell can handle a larger mpc (not too large), to good effect.

(BTW, I didn't think the Wick mpcs had rounded bowls at all -- I always thought they were more funnel shaped, regardless of size designation. I'll have to go look more carefully at my two models.)

Another viewpoint for you to consider,

[Will]

Thanks for the info. Does anyone have a used Wick 2 or 3 with the smaller shank or a Besson 14 to sell?

[Steve Inman]

I think Mouthpiece Express sells the Wick line of mpcs.

Cheers,

[royjohn]

There are some Chinese knockoffs for sale on Ebay that are #3 Denis Wick equivalents, they say. The description states this, they are $19.95 plus shipping and someone on this list recommended I try one, said they were not bad. FYI.

[Donn]

(BTW, I didn't think the Wick mpcs had rounded bowls at all -- I always thought they were more funnel shaped, regardless of size designation. I'll have to go look more carefully at my two models.)

So also claims the maker, I believe, but maybe we're in a grey area here, since no mouthpiece is absolutely conical. While you're looking, check Schilke-Helleberg vs Conn 7B - to me, there's a similar difference in shape and tone, curious if you'd hear that. The only mouthpiece I have that might be as funnel shaped as the Conns is a Schilke 66, and the DW 5 is close (and I think both would be of interest for Eb, for someone who sounds good with a smaller mouthpiece.)

[Chuck(G)]

The only mouthpiece I have that might be as funnel shaped as the Conns is a Schilke 66, and the DW 5 is close (and I think both would be of interest for Eb, for someone who sounds good with a smaller mouthpiece.)

The only "true" funnel-shaped mouthpiece that I'm aware of for tuba is the Dr. Young. But I couldn't imagine using it on a little Eb.

Speaking of which, does anyone know of a bass trombone mouthpiece that's as funnel-shaped as the Dr. Young?