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[tubacdk]

Any differences?

I've seen two different kinds of horns called the Nirschl 4/4. One has the York copy valve section and one doesn't. The PT-Nirschl is the one with the York copy valve section, and that's what I have. It basically looks like a CSO York with a slightly shrunken bugle & bell. The non-PT Nirschl looks completely different.
The Besson looks identical to the PT-Nirschl, but plays/sounds rather different. I think the Besson is pieced together using parts from various factories, while the PT-Nirschl was still made in Nirschl's shop.

Seems a lot of the PT-Nirschls are coming out of the woodwork now, and I'd "thought" they were "prototypes" (only seen one til recently) They also seem to have doubled in street asking price in like the last 6 months!

a lot? are you talking Nirschls in general, or just the 4/4s? I've had mine for over a year, and I paid nearly $8k for it. If you're referring to the $5500 Nirschl on NetInstruments, it was posted over two years ago and the seller never replied to my inquiries when I was shopping back then.

Are the WN 4/4 horn and that PT design consistent enough to warrant the escalating prices? I've been told there are some real bowser 6/4 examples.

I can't speak for the consistency of 4/4s, as mine is the only one I've played.

I think the PT-developed design seems to have gotten a long ways for Nirschl, is it the same design extended into the Besson and "current" 4/4?

I've played one or two of the Besson horns, and they were okay. I wasn't crazy about the tone or the feel, but they seemed well made. I know one guy here in LA who sounds great on his. I'm just not crazy about it.

Contrary to another post the PT Nirschl (at least the one I saw) was nothing like my piston Bohm & Meinl. Smaller, wrap different, different tapers, no main slide up top, etc etc.

Right, completely different beasts.

And how about the rumored 4k$ India horns? Same "design"?

not a clue.

-ck

[Toobist]

I bought mine back in '94 and it doesn't look much like any other one I've seen save for fellow lister Mr. Steve Marcus. You there Steve? I think (and it's been a long time) that the model number is 54C although it's not stamped anywhere on the horn.

On my horn, the most noticable difference is the fifth valve. The valve itself is located below the valve cluster whereas on more current models its roughly under the palm. Also, the valve paddle is on a long arm whose pivot point is directly above the first valve.

It's been the only CC I've owned and every once in a while I think about replacing it, then, after I try a few other horns, I'm reminded exactly just how good my ol' Nirschl actually is!

I've played it against both the PT and the Besson and I can't help but think mine's the better of the three. I prefer the leadpipe configuration on mine as the others' recievers seem a little too close to the bell for my particular taste.

I have to take some pics of my horn this week. I'll see if I can post them here when do.

[ASTuba]

I love my Besson 995, it's a great tuba. Everyone that I've ever heard play it says the same thing. I don't buy that their all junk, just like every other tuba, there are always good and bad ones of each.

[Alex C]

The Nirschl/Besson has a different leadpipe, among other minor things. It was also about $3000 cheaper.

The playing difference to me was that the Nirschl/Besson seemed lighter in sound and response than the Custom Music Nirschls. I chased down a couple of Bessons before I finally played the Nirschl I bought.

I really wish Roger Lewis would chime in here. He's had more exposure to the Besson CC than anyone and surely has seen his share of Nirschls.

Tuba du jour? I don't think so, it's been around too long and the people that own them seem to keep them.

[Steve Marcus]

I bought mine back in '94 and it doesn't look much like any other one I've seen save for fellow lister Mr. Steve Marcus. I think (and it's been a long time) that the model number is 54C although it's not stamped anywhere on the horn.

On my horn, the most noticable difference is the fifth valve. The valve itself is located below the valve cluster whereas on more current models its roughly under the palm. Also, the valve paddle is on a long arm whose pivot point is directly above the first valve.

It's been the only CC I've owned and every once in a while I think about replacing it, then, after I try a few other horns, I'm reminded exactly just how good my ol' Nirschl actually is!

I've played it against both the PT and the Besson and I can't help but think mine's the better of the three. I prefer the leadpipe configuration on mine as the others' receivers seem a little too close to the bell for my particular taste.

Yes, my horn is the same as yours. Herr Nirschl told me that he built only 15 horns in this configuration.

I am in perfect agreement with your assessment of this tuba.

Steve Marcus