Question about French tuba.

[Chuck(G)]

They're around and can be had if you're patient, but they're not real common. And you're not likely to find one in a junkpile unless it's been run over with a D9 first.

The 6-valve French tuba in C was always intended as a professional orchestral instrument, not as something young Francois would play in his school band. 5 valve models were apparently also produced.

Manufacture of these instruments actually continued into the 1970's, but like I said, they're not common.

[imperialbari]

My brass instruments' galleries hold this information on the French tuba:

Thumbnails of a Couesnon French tuba in C with 3+2 pistons:
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/yo ... b2+pistons

Couesnon 1930 6 valve Monopole C tuba. (458KB). 3 Pics of a 1930 instrument and a page from a1912 catalogue. Silver plated tuba in C with six valves, signed "COUESNON / PARIS / MONOPOLE / CONSERVATOIRES / MADE IN FRANCE" Made c.1930. Height 62.0cm. Bell diameter 26.8cm. The "Monopole" brand is Couesnon's highest quality mark. This instrument was invented during the early years of the 20th century and was used in many orchestras and bands in Paris. (Based on low resolution scans by a third party):
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/YorkMaste ... 0CTuba.pdf

Thumbnails: http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/yo ... nch+C+tuba

Thumbnails of a Couesnon French C tuba 3+3 pistons:
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/yo ... 2b3pistons

Thumbnails of a 1930 Couesnon French C tuba 3+3 pistons (different layout):
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/yo ... uba+3%2b3P

Pages illustrating fingerings and scales from a 1913 book on 6 and 5 valve versions of the Courtois French tuba in C. A commented attempt, by YM, to translate the history behind the development of the 6 valve version has been added (1551KB)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/YorkMaste ... 1913Bk.pdf

Thumbnail(-s) of a Courtois French C tuba 3+3P:
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/yo ... 3%2b3P.jpg

Klaus

PS: As obvious from the addresses given above and from the signature lines below here my galleries are organised in the form of a series of Yahoo groups. By definition (from Yahoo) stored files and photos, close to 50MB in each group, are only available to group members.

But then these groups are welcoming virtually everybody.

[UDELBR]

Error
GROUP_CHECK

gpg16.bc.scd.yahoo.com:GROUP_CHECK

[Chuck(G)]

Try this:
http://www.musik-alexander.de/gebr_alex ... index.html

Beg pardon, but I think the poster was asking about the French C, not the Wagner Tuba:

[Chuck(G)]

Valves 2 and 5 each descend a semitone
Valve 1 descends 2 semitones
Valve 3 descends 4 semitones
Valve 4 descends 5 semitones
Valve 6 descends 7 semitones

Note the number alternate fingerings possible. For example as an alternative to pressing the 4th valve, you could also use 3+2, or 3+5, similarly as an alternative to valve 6, you could use 4+2+5, or 4+1 or 1+2+3+5.

And since it's 3+3, even Homer Simpson could play it. If you count pedals, the range of the instrument is way above the staff to about C 5 ledgers below.

[UDELBR]

I have a hundred-year old Belgian Saxhorn that uses the same fingering pattern as your "French 6", or at least on it's 4 valves.

Warren Deck used to have an ancient King CC that was set up that way, stock from the factory.

[Chuck(G)]

My copy of Watelle's "Grande Méthode de Basse et Tuba" calls out the following instruments:

• Basse à 3 pistons (ou Baryton)
  Contrebasse à 3 pistons
  Basse et Contrebasse à 4 pistons (au doigté ancient)
  Basse et Contrebasse à 4 pistons( au doigté ministériel)
  Tuba d'Orchestre á 5 pistons
  Tuba d'Orchestre á 6 pistons

All are pitched in C or CC. The instruments "au doigté ancient" correspond to our modern 3rd valve notions, while the "ministériel" versions have a 3rd valve that corresponds to our modern 2+3. French orchestral pitch at the time was around 440 (437-445, depending on who you were playing with, from Ellis' appendix to Helmholtz's "On the Sensations of Tone").

Wind-band (military band) music, on the other hand most commonly used a high-pitch standard in the high 450's to low 460's, as did the USA and instruments were pitched in Bb or Eb, not C. AFAIK, the "saxhorn basse en Sib" did not exist as a 6 piston production model. I'd love to see any evidence to the contrary. 5 valve Bb saxhorns are still very much in current production. However, the physical proportions are more slender than the French "tubas", so there's little problem of confusion strictly from appearance.

At A4=462 Hz, a second-line Bb sounds at 116.5 Hz. At A4=440 Hz, a second-space C sounds at 130.8 Hz; a B natural is 123.5 Hz, so a high-pitch saxhorn in Sib would still sound a very sharp modern-pitch Bb, close to a B natural, but nowhere near a modern C. It'd take some serious saw and torch work to bring one of the old high-pitch Bb basses to a modern C.

[corbasse]

I remembered this thread when I stumbled upon this instrument on www.instrumantiq.com
http://www.instrumantiq.com/images/RVC/ ... nop-6p.jpg

Don't know if you're still looking, but that one is for sale.

[Steve Inman]

I remembered this thread when I stumbled upon this instrument on www.instrumantiq.com
http://www.instrumantiq.com/images/RVC/ ... nop-6p.jpg

Don't know if you're still looking, but that one is for sale.

That particular tuba has tuning slide extenders to allow it to play in Bb or C -- you can see them clearly for the 1st and 3rd valves.

BTW -- does anyone know:
1. Approximate bell diameter and bore of this instrument?
2. How do these play as the notes drop off the staff going down?
(I can only assume they're rather stuffy ....)

Thanks,