going from professional CC to sousaphone

[iiipopes]

Here's the direct link to the BBb fingering chart, which includes 3-valve alternatives, on the Tips section of the website:

http://www.chisham.com/tips/fingerings/BBb.html

Practice, Practice, Practice!

What kind of souzy is it? If it's a Conn, see if your department will let you have the upper 1st valve loop turned into a slide for your left hand to help intonation. I have on both the ones I've played in the last few years. Since you're used to orchestral CC, it should be second nature to you once you get used to second ledger line C being 1-3 instead of open on your CC, and the other notes accordingly.

[iiipopes]

Hey Ben -- that is good, so you don't have to learn everything as a paradigm shift at once.

[windshieldbug]

To do it fast, sit down and transpose the music a step up. How much music can there be!?

[tuba_hacker]

Ben's right. The key is to know what you're playing in your head before picking up the horn. During a musical theater gig this summer, I doubled on CC tuba and Bb euphonium, switching between the two horns on the same gig with no problems.

To top it off, bass trombone is my primary instrument. Practice on both (CC and Bb) horns is essential, after a while, you'll be able to make the switch with no problem at all. Just don't think about it too much when you're doing it. (As a bass trombonist, that was never a problem).

[WakinAZ]

Well, if you're reading bass clef, there is nothing to do but deal. It will take time. As a performance major, you will be expected to know at least two keys of tuba (different fingerings) for your contrabass and bass tuba anyway. Prepare to be flexible.

Someone here recommended playing something on your main horn, play it on the new horn, repeat ad nauseum...

Eric "been there in BBb, CC , F, and most recently Eb" L.

[jonesbrass]

Here's the easy, but expensive, route: get a 4-valve Miraphone CC sousaphone. They used to make them once upon a time . . .

[Todd S. Malicoate]

James,

I would highly recommend that you don't transpose the band music up a step and use CC fingerings.

Just think of the sousaphone as a new instrument you are learning, just like you would learn trombone, euphonium, or (god forbid) saxophone. Your marching band music won't be that hard, and you can take the time to concentrate on the new fingerings. Write them in on the music if it helps - no one will think less of you as you learn the new axe.

There will certainly be occassions for you to play sousaphone or euphonium (same fingerings up an octave) in the future - take the time now to "do it right" and learn the BBb fingerings.

The nice thing about playing in the marching band for you at this point is that it's quite repetitive, but not as boring as practicing alone from a beginner band method or something - makes learning the new fingerings a bit more tolerable.

Best of luck, and enjoy the experience!

[MartyNeilan]

James, I can tell that you are not too thrilled with your situation. Try to make the best of the situation. There are more than a few pros on this board making their living playing a 3 valve Sousaphone. Besides, if you wind up teaching middle/high school band or private students you will want to have your BBb fingerings down cold. Also helps if playing euph or valve trombone.

The instruments should be different enough to serve as a brain cue to not get the two mixed up. When all else fails, write BBb tuba in big letters on the top of the page.

Besides, sooner or later you will be learning F tuba as a perfomance major, so this will just be good preparation.

[Eric B]

Did you start on BBb before switching to CC? If yes, what process did you go through to successfully make that change? Whatever you did, just reverse the process. I agree with the post that said to envision the sousaphone as a different instrument. That's what I do when I play euphonium. I occasionally revert to CC fingerings in difficult sightreading passages, but how often is that going to happen in marching band!

I know what you're going through. I had the same thing happen to me in college. Keep your head up, it turned out to be a great experience because I managed to keep a possitive attitude through it all. Attitude is everything!

[sc_curtis]

any recomendations on what to do regarding this switch, in my lessons and practice i do the CC of course

I learned CC the summer before my sophomore year in HS. I never had any problems doing the switch. Take the advice of the above people who said to think of it as 2 different instruments, or gears, or whatever. Learn songs on both instruments. It will help.

I make the distinction between different keys of tubas in my mind similar to that of picking up a horn or trumpet. Completely different way to think about playing.

[jonesbrass]

As your skills and gigging progress, you will probably be gigging on all four common keys of tuba and perhaps a few other instruments. There is no substitute for practice.

[tuba kitchen]

Yippie!!

I'm doing exactly this presently in my commercial brass band. I'm a C tuba player (also Eb). we recently decided the sousaphone sounds great in this group, so, now I'm learning 50 songs - in Bb.

Luckily, I did play Bb sousaphone in high school and used to double a lot on trombone, but all our songs are memorized (also with choreography) so I sit around and practice with the cd and drink beer...

[Naptown Tuba]

so I sit around and practice with the cd and drink beer...

There's the real secret.................it's BEER!

[iiipopes]

James, I can tell that you are not too thrilled with your situation. Try to make the best of the situation. There are more than a few pros on this board making their living playing a 3 valve Sousaphone.

As did John "Red Chief" Kuhn in the early days of recording. I have not heard any of his cylinder or 78 rpm recordings, but supposedly he was so smooth on a souzy that on the primitive recording technology and radio a listener would think he/she was listening to a full upright double bass section, in spite of the fact you couldn't really record a double bass well with the acoustic horn microphones.

I absolutely love playing a souzy. If someone offered me up a brand new (pick the brand and model of the fad of the day 6/4 instrument) tuba for my souzy, I'd turn it down. I have way too much fun with it, and I don't have to worry about it. It's like the Energizer Bunny -- it just plays, and plays, and plays....

Instead of loathing the souzy, get a Kelly 18 in your school's color, bone up on a range of some good Dixieland and other music like the Dirty Dozen Brass Band and some others, including some kick-*** dogfights of some good marches, learn some good glissando or "rip" technique, along with some beat boxing, etc., learn some rockin' bass guitar parts on the souzy to amaze your friends and section mates (we all know those are not necessarily the same people, unfortunately) and just have fun with it.

[Bandmaster]

Alrighty, I found out to now keep my scholarship, i have to play sousaphone now, and i started band camp and had way too many wrong fingerings and im using my helleberg 7B, and on my CC im using a PT 50+

any recomendations on what to do regarding this switch, in my lessons and practice i do the CC of course

Getting the fingerings will take a little time, but why use that little bitty 7B? My Conn sousa plays wonderful with my PT 50 stuck in the leadpipe! Your fingers are having a hard time, why give your chops a hard time too?

[eupher61]

JUST DO IT!!

[sloan]

There's a saying in poker: "if you find yourself stuck with a difficult decision - you should look backwards to find the mistake you made".

The mistake you made was to SWITCH from BBb to CC, rather than ADDING CC to the BBb. Now you've lost the BBb and face difficult choices.

In my opinion, any BBb player who switches to CC and abandons the BBb was not ready to move on to CC in the first place. It was a bad decision, perhaps forced on him by well-meaning teachers or advisors.

If you are not capable of ADDING CC to the existing BBb, then (in my opinion) there's absolutely no point in switching. There is nothing you will be able to do on the CC that you couldn't have done on the BBb (except perhaps purchasing a "professional" CC).

One key is in the title of this thread: PROFESSIONAL CC vs. BBb. A true *professional* wouldn't be worrying about this at all - he'd just pick up the horn and play. Either horn, any time, any music.

Given that your scholarship depends on playing BBb, I suggest that you behave professionally and learn to play BBb well enough to do the job. That means actually practicing on the BBb - not just showing up on the football field and trying desperately to fake it well enough to get by. Maybe, with luck, this time you can ADD BBb to your existing CC and get to the point you should have been at long ago - being able to play both equally well.

either that or scour the marketplace for a CC Sousaphone...if Daddy can afford a "Professional CC", perhaps he can pay for a CC Sousaphone, too.

Or, you could decline the BBb gig and return the scholarship money.

By the way...what professional obligations do you have that REQUIRE you to play CC?

[djwesp]

James, you won't like my response, but I think I'll give it anyway.


As a tuba performance major, you should be beyond issues like this. Tuba/Trombone/Trumpet players in almost any classical application (which is what you want) are EXPECTED to be able to change keyed instruments freely with little or no problems.


The quickest way to do this is work on transposition ALL YEAR on ALL of the horns you play. Transposition should become so free that you will not have to worry about this issue because you are using it so much in your practice routine. I LIKE to play my Eb horn, however, I know that in any situation (audition, gig, whatever) I could be asked or expected to play one of the "standard" keyed horns.


I have found that in gig situations, ESPECIALLY churches, you will not have time to fiddle around with this stuff and can be expected to transpose a lot of music! Hymns, alto/tenor clef, treble clef. The more fluently you can read OTHER instruments/vocal music, the better. The more you are actively reading music (and not rote learning fingerings) the better!

[jonesbrass]

I respect the point of views respected here, but I have to make a personal observation. Just MHO. Too many young players don't take the time to "master" the instrument they're on before they try to pick up other keyed instruments.
I was teased a little bit when I was in college for buying a pro BBb tuba. The opinion of the other tuba players was "why would you buy a BBb? I don't know anybody who owns their own BBb, everybody buys a CC." The advice I recieved from my instructors was to master the BBb before I tried to play any other keyed tuba.
Long story short, I didn't switch until about 2 years into my Army Band career. Thank goodness. Spending the time to be able to play anything put in front of me on BBb just made playing CC, F and Eb that much easier when the time came. Switching between CC for concert band/brass quintet to BB for marching band, to F for tuba-euphonium ensemble was so much easier. YMMV. Gook luck in any event. Just practice.