4/4 tuba 4 orchestra

[MikeMason]

regarding multiple tubas:for the vast majority of us,the only 2 tuba pieces we'll ever see are Rite of Spring and Fantastique.I would estimate 1 of those every 50 pieces programmed, so, 2%.The 25 or so guys in full time orchestras may see an occasional Berlioz Requiem,Judges of the Secret Court or an obscure Strauss tune(Alpine,etc).

[bort]

I think I remember hearing that David Fedderly has used a Getzen G-50 and a MW 2145 with the Baltimore Symphony.

[windshieldbug]

I used a Marzan CC slant-rotor, although people differ as to whether it's a large 4/4 or a small 5/4. It was more than enough horn for almost all occasions, given the proper mouthpiece.

I think the question really depends on the type of sound you are striving for; one that will envelop everything else, or one that is distinct from everything else.

[Tubaguy56]

we have a guy who does it on a miraphone 186, does a fine job too....

[Wyvern]

regarding multiple tubas:for the vast majority of us,the only 2 tuba pieces we'll ever see are Rite of Spring and Fantastique.

In eight years of orchestral tuba playing I am yet to see either of those

I would agree that a 4/4 CC is quite sufficient for the majority of performances. However using a 6/4, if used intelligently can enhance the performance. Last week I did a concert which in the first half featured Wagner Tristan & Isolde Prelude and Love Death, followed by Respighi Fountains of Rome. I would normally only use a small tuba (my Eb) for Tristan, but as I also had my 6/4 Neptune beside me, I decided to add to the climax of the Love Death with the entry on my BAT. I was pleased to have a gentleman from the audience come up to me in the interval and say how the use of my big tuba had the effect of wonderfully raising the climax. He enjoyed the performance more than a recent one he had heard by a "top" orchestra!

I am lucky to regularly play in an orchestra numbering 85 to 100+, which helps me justify having a big tuba. I do consider orchestra size and known conductor preference in my choice of tuba.

Isn't there ANOTHER arrangement of Pictures that has 2 tubas (arranger's name begins with a G, I think?)?
How common is this one? I thought I read that New York did it last year.

The arrangement by Gortchakov which uses two tubas. Rarely performed - I have only ever heard in concert once and I believe there is only one recording of it (by Kurt Masur/London Philharmonic - nla)

…just for my curiosity. If you are playing a 4/4 sized CC tuba as the principle horn in an orchestra, what kind of tuba (maker and model #) is that? Is that horn good enough or large enough for the orchestral work?

Going back to the original question. My 4/4 is a B&S PT-20 which I find is quite sufficient for orchestral work. For example I used for Rachmanninov Symphony No.2 earlier this year playing with a 65-70 piece orchestra.

[Eric B]

I use a Miraphone 186 CC 4V for all of my orchestral work and concert band work. I have had no complaints of insufficient sound quantity in orchestra and I've had to back off in the band setting.

[Wyvern]

A further thought...

Of course the most important aspect of playing tuba in an orchestra is the person behind the tuba. A good tuba player can probibly get away with using virtually any tuba within reason - to most other musicians and audience a tuba is a tuba and that is it! If you are playing the written music, they will be satisfied.

A 4/4 CC (or in the UK a Besson EEb) is a good all around tuba and some players get on very well with just the one tuba - no complaints.

It is only when one becomes serious about tuba playing and try different instruments that the tubist realises that they can do a "better job" using big tubas and small tubas for different music to produce their best results.

If the individual tubist considers that the investment (expense and effort) to play multiple tubas is worthwhile, is for them to decide. No one will complain (unless you are in a top professional orchestra) if you use a 4/4 for everything, but if you do put in that investment, then I am sure you will notice that your "improved" performances will be noticed and you will receive increased compliments (and greater satisfaction from your playing).

Jonathan "who has noticed a ten fold increase in compliments since investing in a 6/4 CC"

[marktuba]

I've played a Hirsbrunner HB2-P in the Toronto Symphony since 1986.

Mark Tetreault

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench; a long plastic hallway where pimps and thieves run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side"- Hunter Thompson

[eupher61]

Mark, is Ray Luedeke still playing clarinet there? If he is, please tell him hello from Kansas City. He probably won't remember me anymore, but he was teaching at UMKC while I was there...just wish him well!

thanks!

[iiipopes]

I use a Miraphone 186 CC 4V for all of my orchestral work and concert band work. I have had no complaints of insufficient sound quantity in orchestra and I've had to back off in the band setting.

Lucky you. We have 3 BBb 186's, a Weltklang stencil and a Conn 2J for a full compliment university community band, joined by a EEb contra clarinet, 3 bass clarinets, and a bari sax, and our director still wants more!

[Sam Gnagey]

Before I got my 5/4 Rudy Meinl CC in 1990 I did almost all of my CC tuba work on a Cerveny 4-valve 4/4 CC. I sold the Rudy about 8 months ago because I found that I used it very little after I started building and playing my 4/4 CC conversion horns. I really haven't seen the need for a bigger instrument in the orchestra here, and with our very Russian conductor I'm in the midst of a pretty powerful brass section that's almost never given the hand. The last piece that I tried to use the Rudy on I was getting comments that the projection wasn't as good on it as the section was used to. That's when I decided it could go.
Didn't Kyle Turner use a 56j in the NY Phil while he subbed for Warren?

[eupher61]

Piggy. 'nuff said...

[sinfonian]

Miraphone 188 which many consider a larger 4/4

[MikeS]

I use an Alexander 163 as my "big" horn in a decent semi-professional orchestra and have never felt like I needed anything larger. I've never been entirely sure whether the 163 is a large 4/4 or a small 5/4 and have, frankly, never much cared. Looking at similar orchestras in this part of the state the tubists use, roughly from smallest to largest:

Cerveny Piggy
Miraphone 186 CC
Miraphone 187
PT-5
Rudy 5/4

[Wyvern]

you don't want to bring a big horn if all you do with it is get yourself the hand.

A couple of weeks ago I spent a week away playing with an orchestra. I took with me my 6/4 Neptune and Melton Eb to use as I felt appropriate for the music. In that week, not once did I receive "the hand" playing my Neptune, but although I used my Eb much less, twice got told "less tuba" playing my small tuba (and both of those times in passages marked as forte)!

I sometimes think the idea that using a big tuba necessarily means more volume is a tubist urban-myth. My observations are that the big difference between the sound from a big and small tuba is not volume, but the tone of sound. A small tuba is generally clearer and more direct, while that from a big tuba more enveloping with greater depth.

That means that often the small tuba's sound may punch through the ensemble's texture and sound too loud to the conductor, while the big tuba does not when putting out as much, or more volume.

Jonathan "who thinks if a smaller horn meant less sound, you would hardly hear trumpets"