Tuba in jazz band (as a horn, not string bass)?

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:11 pm

Some of the Stan Kenton charts have tuba on the bottom.

My personal opinion on this is to play tuba on the charts that call for tuba, and play a real bass trombone (with a bass trombone mouthpiece!) on the majority of charts that call for bass trombone. Yeah, tuba can play the notes, but it's about timbre.

Eric B · Post by **Eric B** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 7:43 pm

One year the University of Arkansas jazz band director, Dr. James Greeson went on sabatical. The low brass professor, Mr. Gerald Sloan, led the band during that time. Mr. Sloan is a bass trombonist and the band had none, so he recruited me to play (and learn) bass trombone. He programmed a piece called "I Ain't Gonna' Ask No More" by Toshiko Akiyoshi. It's a great tuba feature. It's a tough piece (for all of the other instruments) and fun for the tubist.

BopEuph · Post by **BopEuph** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 7:46 pm

Let's not forget MJT Project and the Matteson-Phillips Tuba Jazz Consort.

Nick

Mudman · Post by **Mudman** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:38 pm

Salt Lake Alternative Jazz Orchestra uses tuba as a member of the horns. Sometimes the tuba plays rhythmic grooves with the rhythm section, or works as a fourth bone. There is also a bass bone in the section that acts as the bottom of the trombone section, or third when the tuba is cranking.

The group plays original, progressive big-band music and performs around once a month in Salt Lake City. Members of this insane group include some of the leading jazz players in SLC.

http://www.slajo.com

http://www.myspace.com/slajo

If you are in town, check em out. 10:00 gigs tend to start at 10:45 so bring a friend!

Richard Murrow · Post by **Richard Murrow** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:44 pm

Donâ€™t forget things like the great writing by Gil Evans on Sketches of Spain and Porgy and Bess that Bill Barber played. Although it was only a nonet, the Birth of the Cool recordings with Bill Barber. The Village Vanguard Band with Howard Johnson. Also, the Sauter/Finnegan Band with Harvey Phillips. Thelonius Monk recordings in the 50â€™s with Jay McAllister. McCoy Tyner in the 90â€™s with Howard Johnson. Additionally, Jim Self did some terrific playing on at least one Mel Torme recording where the tuba has a very prominent role and Jim as always sounds great! Also, I will very humbly add that I did 3 or 4 recordings with the Dallas Jazz Orchestra from around â€™95-â€™02 that are worth a listen. They were fairly progressive, but I think they are no longer in print.

Tuba in big band is very satisfying. Unfortunately, with the exception of school big bands the entire big band market is no longer a very practical medium. This is a $ issue, so when it happens it is usually a labor of love and not a viable financial endeavor. If you are interested in playing this music start building a library, get your friends together, and put together a Sunday or Monday night reading band and have fun. By the way, itâ€™s great for your reading chops.

KarlMarx · Post by **KarlMarx** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:03 pm

Greg wrote:Some of the Kenton recordings with the large orchestra (horns & tuba) really sounded awesome. The tuba wasn't glaring as a soloist but added to the texture. The color of sound coming from a bass bone would degrade the beauty of Kentons fat charts! I think he usually had a bass bone in addition to the tuba sound? Not tuba in place of bass bone?

Kenton's low brass section had 3 tenor trombones and 2 bass trombones. One of the latter doubled on tuba.

Carolus Fundamentalus

Chadtuba · Post by **Chadtuba** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:59 pm

I play tuba on a few of the charts in the local big band. Usually Kenton stuff but also on a few charts just to add the extra bottom. I like it, the band likes it, the director likes it, and the audience really likes it. I usually only play it when we're doing indoor concerts on a good sized stage. The outdoor concerts we've been doing have all been on tiny stages so I don't bring out if there isn't going to be room for it.

Chadtuba · Post by **Chadtuba** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 12:03 am

Double post, sorry

hurricane_harry · Post by **hurricane_harry** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:48 am

have you thought about the birth of the cool?

one of my favorites to this day

tubaguy9 · Post by **tubaguy9** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:24 pm

I think some of Mingus's stuff has tuba...
At least it did in Opus 4...

Udi · Post by **Udi** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:01 pm

Mingus had Don Butterfield in "The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady", and I'm quite sure he had a tuba in "Let My Children Hear Music", but I don't have a copy of it in front of me at the moment.
I was part of a combo with double-bass, drums, 3 saxes, a bass clarinet, a pianist doubling on trumpet. All the music was written by our band leader Aviran Ben Naim, a composer and player I collaborate with a lot, and always enjoy. He started playing with me and writing me parts before I really knew how to play, just because he likes the tuba so much

The parts he used to write me back then jumped around between bass parts, melody and harmony, like in this recording (Orienthology):
http://aviranbn.com/music/2-07-ensemble ... tology.mp3
You can listen to some more of his music here:
http://aviranbn.com/music_en.php
And
I agree with everyone who said bass trombone parts are for bass trombones.
The Monk recording previously mentioned is very disappointing in my opinion. You need a lot of imagination to be able to enjoy the arrangements, which seem poorly rehearsed and executed. I love monk, and I love brass, but this isn't it.

tubaguy9 · Post by **tubaguy9** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:24 pm

MartyNeilan wrote:Some of the Stan Kenton charts have tuba on the bottom.

My personal opinion on this is to play tuba on the charts that call for tuba, and play a real bass trombone (with a bass trombone mouthpiece!) on the majority of charts that call for bass trombone. Yeah, tuba can play the notes, but it's about timbre.

Exactly. Some can be range, too. I remember this last year going to jazz competitions playing one of Ellington's Congas (I can't remember the name of the tune, if someone named it, I would recognize it. It was like half note=132...We had the Essentially Ellington version, so it had 3 parts), A ballad made famous by one of the big-bands (I'm really bad at remembering piece names right now), Opus 4, and Bugle Call Rag. Bugle Call rag was written for a Jr. High band, I think, or 4-part tenor 'bone 'band, but I remember carrying 4 instruments to each competition: Tuba, Bass 'Bone, and Tenor 'Bone. Tenor 'Bone on the Ellington, Bass Bone on the ballad (it called specifically for the bass) and Bugle Call (once in a while transposing octaves for fun) and then Tuba on Opus 4...All with appropriate mouthpieces...

ken k · Post by **ken k** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:44 pm

gil evans/miles davis stuff on Miles Ahead, Sketches of Spain, Porgy & Bess and Birth of the Cool.

Do a search on you tube and you will find some great videos.

They are all posted on my favorites list!

k

eupher61 · Post by **eupher61** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:52 am

Mel Torme' wrote tuba parts for about 60% of his charts. Good writing, great performer (RIP), and genuinely good person.

The Akron U big band used tuba back when...check out www.notachancetofindone.com

And, not a big band, but Gravity! uses a tuba in a non-bassline setting, don't they?

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:30 am

The late Bill Barber was considered to be the first real jazz playing tubist who didn't have to play the bassline.

Bill Barber

The first band of the popular music genre to hire a tuba player in that capacity was Harry James. Kay Kyser had a tuba player before him, but he basically played a stylized bassline. The same could be said about Sammy Kaye.

CLICK TO VIEW

Harry James

Kay Kyser

Sammy Kaye

And, for what it's worth, the first tuba player who became nationally famous (because he was a radio star) was Country Washburn. Actually, he was the tuba player and singer for Ted Weems, as well as the band's arranger. Later, he would play (and arrange) for Spike Jones. After leaving Spike, he was a staff arranger and bandleader for CBS at Columbia Square in Hollywood.

CLICK TO VIEW

Joe "Country" Washburn

Two of these pictures from the Gulf Coast Museum in Texas could not be posted on this page. The links will work fine.

Richard Armandi · Post by **Richard Armandi** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:15 am

Bob1062 wrote:
Earl McIntyre played what looked to be a 3+1 comp Eb tuba....

Earl played my Yamaha 381 (it has a dependent 5th in the 4th valve tubing, pitched at a flat whole-step). I rented it to the festival for his use.
Mine was the 2nd prototype (Bob Bauchens got the 1st one) way back in 1984. A superb instrument!

Sean Greene · Post by **Sean Greene** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:50 pm

A couple of great commercial recordings with tuba 'as a horn' in the ensemble:

Wes Montgomery - (I think it's) "Movin' Wes" has Harvey Phillips reading some great lines.
The Dominic Spera Big Band CD, I forget the actual name of the CD, includes Dan Perantoni on tuba. That's a slammin' disc as well.
The Basie 'n' Brass album with all those Quincy Jones arrangements. I remember really enjoying that.
Oh, and Howard Johnson playing with the Thad Jones/Mel Lewis big band- I think it's on "Consummation". Awesome band, awesome tubist.
Recordings featuring Howard Johnson, David Bargeron and Jim Self should be sought out, too.

Hope this gives some direction to your listening.

SG

TonyZ · Post by **TonyZ** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:36 pm

Here in Columbus, we have the "Famous Jazz Orchestra" of Vaughn Wiester. This group has an integral tuba part that double on 4th bone. As Vaughn played in Woody's band, there are many charts from there as well as Basie, Kenton and others. Vaughn is very close with Bill Holman, so there are many of his charts. The tuba in an integral voice, sometimes playing the tune 1 octave below the lead, or filling out harmony, but never as the rhythmic bass voice nor doubling it. It is a very cool sound, and the charts are all great. I am not his regular player, but I sub frequently. You have to play tenor bone, which makes the gigs daunting for some. If you are ever around, the band plays every Monday night at the Columbus Music Hall from 7:30-11:00pm. I will be on the band this Monday, September 10. Cover is $5 and parking is free. The music is phenomenal, and the book is about 450 charts. All good stuff!

http://www.columbusmusichall.com/

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:45 pm

The first jazz band to use the 5th Trombone/Tuba designation was, in fact, Stan Kenton's. This goes back to 1962. The late Tommy Johnson was probably the first regular tuba player who doubled on bass bone (on the same gig) in the Hollywood studios a few years before this. Most tuba players prior to him doubled as bass players, if they doubled on anything at all.

David Spies · Post by **David Spies** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:37 am

There are bands that have used tuba in the horn line. Many have mentioned Kenton, the Gil Evans Orchestra (great voicing with tuba/bari sax in fifths!) and others.

We have a big band in Madison that uses tuba in the fifth bone chair, the separate tuba chair, and, on occasion, in place of the bari sax when he can't make it up from Rockford.

The Madison Jazz Orchestra (http://www.madisonjazzorchestra.com) is pretty active in the region, having been featured at Madison's Overture Hall, the Isthmus Jazz Festival, and concerts throughout Wisconsin and Illinois.

We are part of a small but very vibrant jazz community here in Madison, with Richard Davis, Roscoe Mitchell, Joan Wildman, Les Thimmig, several big bands, traditional and dixieland jazz, and small jazz combos. The Isthmus Newspaper regularly features jazz listings (http://www.thedailypage.com/music/). It is possible nearly any night of the week to go listen to great live jazz. It is very encouraging in that regard.

We have a regular twice-monthly gig at a local bar called the Harmony Bar and Grill. However, our other monthly location, Rusty's, a venue that has featured live music for over 50 years, just announced (as did two other local jazz venues the very same day) that it will be going out of business (though this was mainly due to road construction nearby). They are talking about replacing the club with a convenience mart.

Jazz in any manner is a delicate endeavor in smaller markets. Encourage your local audiences to listen to all types of live music, including jazz, and to support local establishments that continue to present live music in your own communities. It's too important!

David Spies
Madison Jazz Orchestra
Racine Symphony Orchestra
Willson Tuba Quartet

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Tuba in jazz band (as a horn, not string bass)?

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tuba as a horn in jazz

Tuba in jazz band (as a horn, not string bass)?