conn 20k

[andrew the tuba player]

hey, i was wondering what everyone thinks of the conn 20K sousie. I play an older silver one that our school bought used a few years ago and love it. Its my Favorite tuba even over my Mirafone 186 5uc and the 20j i retreved from storage...(also the heavyist ).

[iiipopes]

A good (which usually means pre-Macmillian) Conn 20K has a superlative tone. However, the intonation is lacking. It does not have as good intonation as the souzys with the "regular" valve set, most notably the notorious flat 5th partials C, Db & D because of the altered geometry of the valve block and valve ports in order to get the "short throw" feature.

And as with any Conn 3-valve souzy, to which I've done this to two of them: the upper loop of the 1st valve tubing should be turned into a slide for the left hand so you can set 2-3 in tune for Gb & Db, and then pull slightly for 1-2 E & A, and @ 1 1/2 inches for C & low F, and a tad more for 1-2-3 B nat and low E nat.

I'll take a conventional valve block over any 20K any day. If I don't need the breadth of tone, I'll take a 14K or its cousins, Cavalier and Pan American, over a 20K for the better intonation.

With the above mod, and the fact that "false" pedals Eb, D, and Db are imminently usable on a Conn souzy, and sometimes I can get C, B nat and true pedal BBb on one when I'm having a good day (says more about me than the souzy -- the horn could do it all day long if I could) you just don't need 4 valves on a BBb souzy. Why carry the extra weight when you don't need to. But I digress.

My opinion is that the best BBb souzy for concert band outdoor concerts (not necessarily marching, which, of course, needs more projection) would be a 20K bugle with the 14K valve block, the 1st valve tubing modded as above, and a ring of small diameter plastic tubing slit lengthwise applied to the rim of the bell to damp overring, as I have also done, for the dual purpose of not only damping overring, but as a ding protector as well, using your choice of a Conn Helleberg or similar, but not so deep you lose definition, or a Kelly Kellyberg or 18.

[Rick Denney]

A good (which usually means pre-Macmillian) Conn 20K has a superlative tone. However, the intonation is lacking. It does not have as good intonation as the souzys with the "regular" valve set, most notably the notorious flat 5th partials C, Db & D because of the altered geometry of the valve block and valve ports in order to get the "short throw" feature.

I'm not completely sure I agree with your cause-and-effect connection. I suspect the flat third partial, which is the famous intonation defect for the 2xK (and 2xJ for that matter) is more a function of the wide taper downstream of the valves. The pre-short-action instruments of the same taper design had the same issues.

For example, Donald Stauffer reported the same problem with his 36J Orchestra Grand Bass, which uses close to the same outer branches as a 24J. His story involved a complaint about his pitch from the maestro of the orchestra in which he played, perhaps in the 40's.

I do recall someone reporting some careful experimentation done by Conn back in the day, where they purposely allowed the third partial to go flat in trade for an in-tune fifth partial. The thinking was that the F at the bottom of the staff could be played 1-3 and brought up to tune, rather than playing it open. That's certainly how it worked on my 20J.

I thought the 20J made a glorious sound, but only the really good 2x's have the ability to play below mezzoforte. My 20J, which was a Mexiconn and which had been through the wars (and patched up on the battlefield), did not.

Rick "thinking all big tubas have intonation 'issues'" Denney

[Biggs]

hey, i was wondering what everyone thinks of the conn 20K sousie. I play an older silver one that our school bought used a few years ago and love it. Its my Favorite tuba even over my Mirafone 186 5uc and the 20j i retreved from storage...(also the heavyist ).

Little stuffy on the 13, 23, 123 combinations, but perhaps this is to be expected. Very visually appealing though, which I feel is the real reason that some directors swear by them.

[josh wagner]

I do not like them at all, the ones we have at my college are collapsing in on themselves. The ones we have have hardly any projection and are very hard to get a nice sound out of them. Other than the fact they are falling apart after getting them only three years ago (i think we picked up like 8 of them) they do look very nice when clean and not riddled with dents tarnish. other than that eh. But the ones we had at my high school are pretty nice. we must of got a nice set or something.

[Lee Stofer]

I think that the Conn 20K sousaphone is one of the better tubas ever made, provided that it is completely correctly assembled and shop-adjusted. The Conn short-action "Clickless" valves, due to the flattened, oval shape of the valve ports, must be very accurately adjusted or it will not work. The 20K does not endure any significant denting without serious intonational difficulties, too, so to be right, they have to be right. Another problem to look for on these instruments is the bell angle. With the bell removed, reach into the body of the instrument and see if the joint where the bell bow meets the largest branch really fits, or if it is tipped forward. This one defect in assembly will ruin the feel and playability of an otherwise wonderful instrument. and, the good news is that it can be readily repaired.

I've played Conn 20K's off-and on for 30 years now, and when they are right, intonation is not a problem, stuffy - HUH??!!! - not a chance, and they will lay down a good bass line like no other. They do require some significant physical strength to really master. For those players not particularly hardy in size, I'd suggest a Conn-Elkhart 14K or 38K if you can find one, or a good King 2350.

[WakinAZ]

For those players not particularly hardy in size, I'd suggest a Conn-Elkhart 14K or 38K if you can find one, or a good King 2350.

I'm pretty sure Lee meant 32K for a smaller horn. 38K is a big 'un, I think.

Eric "too many Conn model #s" L.

[andrew the tuba player]

I have to say the 1st and 2nd tuneing slides are stuck pretty good to. But, the 3rd and main pull excellent. I love the high register on it. I get a lot better range and confidence than on the Mirafone. (i think its because of the size). And, the short actions make the faster passages a breeze.
Honestly, I wouldnt buy a fiberglass do to tone and look. But, i would take one.