Benefits of bass bone playing for tubists!

[Norm in Bellevue]

The subjest has been discussed here in passing. I'd like to know from those who do double on bass trombone and tuba if playing the bass trombone actually helps their tuba playing, and if so, why and in what ways? Specifically, I'm trying to improve my upper register playing on my tuba. What exercises, played on bass trombone (or bass bone mpc) would improve my upper range on tuba?

Thanks for your replies.

[ZNC Dandy]

Playing bass trombone correctly will make you realize how lucky you are that the tuba takes as little air as it does. Compared to the bass trombone.

[tubasinfonian]

It's funny, but if you tell a bass trombone player that it requires more air than a tuba, they'll call you crazy. You tell it to a tuba player and we are all in agreement... TONS more air is needed for bass trombone.

I've found personally that I can play up to a Bb above middle C on tuba (BBb, CC, Eb, or F) as well as euphonium, bass trombone, and tenor trombone. My lips just won't buzz anything higher than that Bb! Essentially, it shouldn't matter what mouthpiece your lips are buzzing on as long as you are buzzing the pitch.

With that said, work on some exercises on both mouthpieces (only) such as sirens (bzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzz) where the ZZZ is higher and so on. Also, if you have a keyboard near by, do some buzz matching along with it. Sometimes by removing the instrument, you can better identify the problems with high register playing.

There are some great things in Roger Bobo's book on range extension if you happen to have the funds to buy the book. It's in treble clef allowing it to be played by any instrument on its natural harmonic series!

[glangfur]

It's funny, but if you tell a bass trombone player that it requires more air than a tuba, they'll call you crazy. You tell it to a tuba player and we are all in agreement... TONS more air is needed for bass trombone.

I won't call you crazy!

But it's not MORE air that's needed for bass trombone, it's faster air, with generally more pressure behind it (I don't really love any of these terms, but I think they're as close as I can get).

From my standpoint as a full-time bass trombone player, tuba requires a greater volume of air moving at a slower rate, while bass trombone requires an airstream with more intensity all the way through the sustain of every note. When I practice tuba, I have to make a very conscious adjustment to find the right kind of relaxed airstream, but if I use that same approach on bass trombone, the sound just dies away and doesn't go anywhere.

It seems likely that for a full-time tuba player there is benefit to cultivating some airstream intensity as a tool in the arsenal.

Finally, I'm not sure playing bass trombone is going to help your high range on tuba. In fact, from my experience I think it would help your low range more than your high.

[UDELBR]

TONS more air is needed for bass trombone.

I played bass trombone for years (decades, actually). I can't say I agree with you.

[Mike Finn]

I would probably think that the faster air required due to the higher resistance of bass trombone ...

I've found that the bass trombone actually seems to have less resistance than my current small bore tuba (my big bore horn is in a box somewhere in Iowa) and that playing a few Rochut etudes on the bt and then playing them right away on the tuba really helps with my airflow. I find myself putting more air through the tuba, and getting a nicer tone. That's the one big benefit as far as I'm concerned. Of course, increasing your employability if you get really good at it is another. (I'm a hobbyist at this point.)
As far as range, I'd have to agree with others (and it's been said here before) that my high range hasn't really improved. I can buzz the same pitch on tuba, bass trombone and euph mouthpieces. As far as low range is concerned, I too think that bass trombone has helped me here, and again it's probably a function of airflow.
My recommendation: go for it! Besides the tangible benefits to your tuba playing, it's a LOT of fun! I wish I had started sooner.
Mike

[tbn.al]

As far as range, I'd have to agree with others (and it's been said here before) that my high range hasn't really improved. I can buzz the same pitch on tuba, bass trombone and euph mouthpieces. Mike

I couldn't believe how easy the low range expanded when I started playing tuba, and without sarificing any of the high range. In fact as related by others, my high range limits are within a 5th whether I am playing tuba or trumpet. My trumpet chops are pretty limited.

The biggest shock to me was how cunbersome a valve instrument is compared to a slide. I can't get over how much effort I have to use to play the damn thing in tune. Trombone is easy, just put it in the right spot and blow. No lipping, slide pulling or any other distractions. I really have to work much harder on tuba than trombone. You guys who do it so well have my admiration.

I don't see much benefit to going back and forth between instruments. It seems to wreak havoc with my pitch memory. I really have a hard time entering on the right partial after switching. Once located I am fine until the next long rest. Then it's time to flip a coin again. If I stay on one horn for an extened period of time it gets much easier.