Playing a Trombone III/Tuba Part

[sinfonian]

I was asked to play in a Brass quintet this week and one of the parts are marked "Trombone III or Tuba". If playing a contra-bass tuba would you play the part where written or down an octave? Since we are doing a single run though right before church Sunday it will be hard to try it both ways in practice before performance.

The piece in question is an arrangement of Gabrieli's Canzona Prima a 5.

Thanks for your input.

[eupher61]

if there are no octave doublings, play it where it is. The part obviously was written with tuba in mind as an option.

It doesn't sound like a Robert King part, many of those say to use tuba only if 6 or more parts are playing, and the part is merely a 'baritone' part down the octave, but its own sheet.

[MartyNeilan]

I have played church "trombone 3" parts that were mostly 3-5 ledgers below the staff and "tuba" parts that sat at the top of the staff and above. Play what sounds good in a range that sounds good. Despite their nomenclature, these parts were often written for bass trombone with the word tuba added as an afterthought.

[The Jackson]

When I ran through some Gabrieli pieces (Arr. Robert King) in the school's brass choir, the other tuba player and myself played Trombone II down one octave, and the actual trombonists played them as written. There was no "Tuba" part in it.

If you are the only one covering that part, I'd say to definitely try to play it as written.

[Mark]

I was asked to play in a Brass quintet this week and one of the parts are marked "Trombone III or Tuba".

Are there normally 3 trombones in the quintet?

[sinfonian]

I was asked to play in a Brass quintet this week and one of the parts are marked "Trombone III or Tuba".

Are there normally 3 trombones in the quintet?

No this is a group put together for a single service. 2 Trumpets, Horn, B-Tbone and Tuba.

[Geotuba]

Since it is an arrangement you have a certain amount of flexibility. I would try to get hold of a copy of the score and study it beforehand and make my own evaluation based on that. I would keep open the possibility that some sections could be played as written and some down an octave.

[Steve Inman]

Unfortunately you don't have a bass tuba available. Had that been a choice, I would have voted for "bass tuba, as written", which is my personal choice for this dilemma.

The complicating factor is "contrabass tuba." I play either a Conn 56J or a Yamaha Eb in my quintet. For a Tbn 2 (not 3) part, it's often high enough that the CC doesn't sound as nice as the Eb. I don't know what the range is for the Tbn 3 part. I also consider the interval between the Tbn 3 and Tbn 1 parts when playing these arrangements. Playing thirds above the staff on CC tuba will sometimes lead me to drop the octave.

Can you practice it yourself both ways, then for your run-thru with the group, play it where you think it will sound best, but note the trouble spots and adjust in the performance? Pick either as written or down an octave and adjust from there.

Too bad you can't play it thru twice with the group. But this is often reality -- in which case I also wouldn't fret too much over it since circumstances dictate that you won't be able to have optimal preparation anyway.

A few random thoughts ...

[brianggilbert]

I run into this constantly, and I think it ends up being a judgement call.

Sometimes when you play the part up in the octave it is written, the color is still a little off, no matter how accurate or careful you are. My bone player and I sound great together, however my color is simply different than his, and even when we're totally locked in it still sometimes sounds iffy...

I think judgement is the key - the part is obviously a "flex part" and written with the option in mind. I guess the general rule of thumb - ALWAYS SOUND GOOD, no matter what octave you choose...

[Kevin Hendrick]

Sometimes when you play the part up in the octave it is written, the color is still a little off, no matter how accurate or careful you are. My bone player and I sound great together, however my color is simply different than his, and even when we're totally locked in it still sometimes sounds iffy...

One thing that might help with that -- use the shallowest mouthpiece you have. I usually play on a Helleberg-type 'piece, but always have a Marcinkiewicz ST4 within reach for bass 'bone parts, and it makes a noticeable difference.

I guess the general rule of thumb - ALWAYS SOUND GOOD, no matter what octave you choose...

[iiipopes]

Try it as written first, and see how the blend/voice leading works with the ensemble and the room. If it doesn't work, then consider taking it down an octave. But if the part isn't above, say, top space G, there should be no inherent reason to take it down an octave.

And if it's not too low, but the texture just doesn't feel right, you could always try it on a Eb or F.

[tbn.al]

Are you sure it is an original quintet part? A part marked Trombone III would usually indicate a brass choir. If that is the case you might have a bit more leeway to play down the octave.

[MileMarkerZero]

You're going to have a chance to hear it at least once or twice before you play it for money...

One thing I do in a church venue is to play it a couple of ways if I have the opportunity. I find that often the middle register of a contrabass tuba booms a little too much in a sanctuary when I take it down, so I'll play it as written. If it sounds OK, I'll play it down. If it's burying the rest of the ensemble, I'll go as written.

I don't think there are any really hard and fast rules about the Gabrielli pieces, since they weren't written for brass in the first place. They are all arrangements and IMO subject to situational editing.

[sinfonian]

UPDATE

The gig went real good. I ended up doing both part of it as written and part down an octave. Someone asked the question if it was arranged for a brass choir I think they just had multiple versions of each part so you could be flexible with your players (I think the horn part was the Trombone 1 part transcribed) the trombone player part was marked trombone 2.

Thanks for everyone's input. Maybe one of these days I will save enough for a bass tuba and won't have this dilemma.

[Rick Denney]

Okay, the time has passed, but the conversation still goes on.

Remember that the distinction between a trombone and a tuba is more than just an octave. I prefer the original octave, but my objective is not playing the notes reliably, but rather doing so with an appropriate sound and style.

Two trombones in a brass quintet blend in ways a trombone and a tuba can't, but I try to bridge that gap as best I can. That usually requires playing within the trombonist's sound, both inside his breadth of tone and inside his loudness envelope. That may be hard to pull off when playing at the upper extreme of one's comfortable range.

If you can blend with the trombone better an octave down, that seems to me preferable to obeying the octave "just because". But it would be better to choose an instrument and develop your skills so that you can do it in the octave written.

Rick "liking the 621 F in quintet precisely because it makes it much easier to blend well with the trombone" Denney