Mouthpiece for Kaiser

[bassax]

For the moment I'm using a standard Conn Helleberg 120 on my Cerveny/Amati BBb Kaiser tuba. It's a large horn: 110 cm (43.5") high, bell 50 cm (20") and bore 0,21 cm (0.83").

The Kaiser is a very free blowing horn and sometimes I'm having difficulties to center the tone. I'd would also like to open up my lower register a bit.

So what do you experts think? Would it be wise for me to change to a cup style mouthpiece instead of the funnel Helleberg? If so, can anyone recommend one that works well on a Kaiser? I wouldn't mind going to a slightly wider mouthpiece.

[iiipopes]

Large tubas like that were generally originally designed to use cupped mouthpieces. I'd try one of the PT German series mouthpieces with it to see how you get along.

[pwhitaker]

Mike Finn MF3B; Joseph Klier T1 or T2 - AA or A or B cup, Perantucci 88+ or Bach Mega 7. All of these are German style - bowl shaped and really open up a larger horn. GW's Bayamo/Caver and Loud's LM3 or 4 are good as well if you prefer Stainless or Titanium. I have a 5/4 Rudy BBb which is a little larger than your horn and all of these are very usable for this style horn.
The bowl seems to open up the lower register better than does the Helleberg style.

[Wyvern]

I like the PT-48 with my Cerveny 701 Kaiser. I compared to a PT-88 and for me the 48 produced a better tone

[finnbogi]

I like the PT-48 with my Cerveny 701 Kaiser. I compared to a PT-88 and for me the 48 produced a better tone

Same here. I use the PT-48 with my Melton Fafner, and like it very much.
I did compare it with PT-88 and PT-50 among others and chose this one.

[Mwtuba32]

You should try the laskey 30G

[tubacrow]

I also play on a large Cerveny. I use a PT 49, and it seems to work well. If all of these large mouthpieces sound to woofy, you might try a S shank model of either the PT 49 or 48.

I for a long time also used a Miraphone C4 mouthpiece

[JHardisk]

Upon the recommendation of Roger Lewis, I've switched from a PT 50 to a PT88S for my Rudy 5/4. Holy crap! I have air left, and it's very bright and focused.

I used to play an 88+, but it was getting muddy. I switched to a 50, and it made things very clear, but sounded very tubby. The small shank 88 made a huge difference for me in air savings and sound. The low register has become easy again, as the 88 doesn't have a pre-installed vaccum to aid the sucking action of my Rudy.

I love PT mpcs.. especially after having tried an ENTIRE line of an un-named stainless steel mpcs with no success. My only complaint is that PT's are not consistent. I own 4 PT88+'s and each one is different. My two 50's are night and day. My three 65's are completely different.

The best way for me to find a mouthpiece I like is either ask Mr. P for one from his "special" drawer, or have Roger Lewis play test every dang mouthpiece he has to find the brightest one (Thanks Roger... I owe you a beer!).

The small shank made a tremendous improvement for me. A small adjustment to my main tuning slide, and everything locked into place for me. The sound at the bell is not as full, but in the hall the sound has been far more present. Funny how that works, sometimes.

I hate switching equipment, so this for me seems to work well with the giant tuba.

It took me that long to simply say, Try a small shank, bowl shaped mouthpiece.

[MartyNeilan]

Another vote for the C4 and its many derivitives on large bore Kaisertuben.

[Rick Denney]

The effect most people notice when moving to the Conn Helleberg and its derivatives is a smoother, rounder, darker tone. On a small tuba (small by big contrabass standards), especially if it tends to the laser-like qualities anyway--think Miraphone 186--, I like this sort of mouthpiece to keep the instrument from being too bright.

But on a big tuba, these mouthpieces tend to lose focus and go woofy. There is no need to select a mouthpiece that favors a rounder, darker result when playing a grand orchestral tuba. The tuba will produce that effect no matter what mouthpiece is stuck in it, and players who gravitate to such instruments already have that sound concept in their heads.

If the tuba is already providing the dark sound, reinforcing that with the mouthpiece just makes the sound so dark that it won't project or speak clearly. When I play a Helleberg on my Holton, the result is woofy and unfocused.

I get results much more to my liking using less deep mouthpieces with a bit more resistance. The PT-48 is a great woof-buster on a big tuba. It's supposedly in the Helleberg camp, but it's not at all like a Helleberg. It's much shallower with more of a bowl shape, even though it's still a large mouthpiece.

The Stofer Geib, so far, seems to have a slightly less big sound on the Holton, but better flexibility and accuracy in the upper register. The sound still has that same zip, and the horn provides all the necessary size.

When I play my Miraphone 186, however, I use a Conn Helleberg or something similar. Otherwise, the sound's intensity is a little hard to control.

The York Master is not any larger than the Miraphone, though it's shorter and has a wider bell. It works best with a large mouthpiece that has a large backbore. But what works on the YM sounds like a bass flute on the Holton--no color or zip in the sound.

So, my experience suggests that big tubas work better with smaller mouthpieces that are less deep and provide more resistance, though even within that generalization some work and some don't.

Rick "hoping Ray saw that post about Roger's recommendation for the big Rudi" Denney

[iiipopes]

If the tuba is already providing the dark sound, reinforcing that with the mouthpiece just makes the sound so dark that it won't project or speak clearly.

The exact reason (along with getting a tighter throat and backbore for better management of my limited breath capacity) I went from a Wick 1L to a Curry 128D on my 186 with the retrofit large throat/small flare/tight rim St Pete bell making it much darker than newer 17 3/4 inch rimmed 186, which has a bell flare almost like a larger version of a Bach 37 trumpet bell, and does the same thing for the tone of a 186 compared to the older 16 1/2 inch bell, which is more mellow, though not necessarily dark like my St Pete bell, which looks east towards Alex territory without actually going there.

[poomshanka]

LOUD LM-10. C4 on steroids, very effective taming big horns. I used on on my Mirafone 190 CC and Willson rotary 3050, both big rotary axes.

[bassax]

Thanks! Great suggestions from you all.

Unfortunately I can't get all of the suggested pieces on trial, but I've ordered a PT-48+, PT-50+ and PT-88+.

I'll let you know how things work out.

[bassax]

Just an update...

I decided to keep the PT-88+, it's a much better match for my Kaiser than the Conn Helleberg. The tone is much more focused than before and the increased resistance makes it easier to play overall.