Choosing between a Eb or F

[Geotuba]

I'm sure there are many factors involved in this decision - my experience here is just one of many such factors.

I grew up in England and my first tuba was a BBb (ancient Hawkes high pitch conversion) - that is all my school had to lend me. When I had saved up enough money to buy my own tuba (decent 2nd hand ones at a reasonable price were hard to find in England in 1972) I ended up getting a B&H Imperial Eb - I still have it. I found that the transition was comparatively easy since the fingering was identical in a portion of the range (and if I got confused I could always just hold down the 4th valve ). Professional players in England were largely playing on Ebs at the time too so that was good enough for unsophisticated me.

35 years later, when it came to get a new instrument, the choice was really between a CC, BBb or Eb - times had changed and I had moved across the pond where CCs were common. I considered moving to a CC but realised that (re)learning the fingering would be much easier if I moved back to a BBb. I might also have stuck with getting a new Eb but liked the idea of having 2 complementary instruments to use rather than getting simply a replacement. I have no aspirations towards getting a professional job so that is not a factor in my decision.

Translating this experience to the likely scenario prompting the OP would suggest that if the student already knows BBb - get an Eb. If they already know CC - get an F. Of course, as I said there are many different factors involved and everyone's situation is different - this is just one amateur's experience to feed into the mix.

[bill]

I find a lot of solo literature is biased toward F tubas but that much orchestral work done on CC tubas can be done on Eb tubas. I have a Willson 3400S and do all orchestral work on that horn with very, very few exceptions. Solos are a different matter, however, so I can see a need for an F. Range is not the problem - just the way the solos use the overtones to advantage. Either bass tuba can be used, in most cases but the solos "feel" different on an Eb from an F. It has been repeated, here, often, that Bill Bell played almost the entire Bill Bell and His Tuba album on an Eb Sousaphone. Finally, there seems to be a bias in music schools against Eb or, more properly, in favor of F tubas. I have always thought that was a fad but there may be valid reasons for it. Maybe someone would express that reason, here? I am writing this having owned two very good F tubas and several very good Eb tubas as well as a couple of pretty good BBb tubas, too.

[windshieldbug]

Personally, I think the horn chooses you more than vice-versa. And the type of playing that you end up doing.

I started with a small American Eb, and then got a 6/4 German F (ended up kind of backward key/size... ). I used both in the orchestra, they both were terrific at the kind of bass tuba work they covered, and I never had a wished for something else.

If you're serious about playing, I think that you'll end up with both, and it's more the kind of parts you cover and the suitability of THAT horn which will be the determining factor.

[jonesbrass]

I've said it before, so I'll briefly state it again. IMHO, a student needs to woodshed on their first horn (BBb, CC, Eb, F, whichever) until a good level of mastery is attained before switching to any other instrument. If the student has really put their time in, they will know which new horn to select when the time comes. The most important part is for the instructor to teach the new student what to look for, how to judge build quality, etc. If they try a bunch of horns, they'll find the right one.

There are advantages to each type of tuba depending on what types of ensembles they play in, etc., but a solid player can make whatever they're playing on work adequately. YMMV.

[tubasinfonian]

Learning a "bass tuba" sound and a "contrabass tuba" sound is what's important here. In the case of a multi-instrument player, I think using bass tubas for lighter tone and brighter quality is an acceptable standard. I also believe using contrabass tubas for darker and richer sounds is an acceptable standard. Beyond that, in my personal opinion, it's all up for grabs.

In the case of a single-instrument player, personal ensemble/solo involvement and personal goals will be the best indicator.

Thanks to modern horn building technology, there is absolutely no significant advantages or disadvantages in any pitched tuba. It all breaks down to personal preference.

I like to offer this suggestion to my friends and colleagues: do a sound test (with a friend) with your eyes closed. Keep going until you find the tuba that provides the type of sound you are looking for. It should be all about the sound.

[Stefan Kac]

If you aspire to play with an evenness of tone throughout all registers, good intonation, control over extreme dynamics, etc. etc., then you are aspiring to a level of technical accomplishment at which point the particular partial you are playing on and the particular combination of valves you are holding down at any given moment is simply irrelevant.

For every piece that lies well on a horn in a given key, there is a piece that is awkward. This is true for horns in all four keys. The size of the horn aside, an accomplished player gains no ground here; it doesn't matter to them which partial or which fingering is in play.

It is far easier to pick the horn that meets your (sound) needs and learn to play in that key than it is to take a horn that does not meet your needs and attempt to coax it in to doing so.

[Tom]

In another equipment thread in days gone by, a professional tubist I admire very much said:

The instrument is meaningless. Your sound and musicianship are paramount.

Your choice of instrument is the extension of the sound that is in your head.

-Matt

[josh_kaprun]

If you want to be in a bigtime American Orchestra....most likely (unless your ev gilmore) you will play a CC.

Awesome that you say that because I am aspiring to play in a "bigtime American Orchestra" and I currently have Ev Gilmore's BBb out for a trial (in fact, it's sitting right next to me IT'S HUGE!!!). I'm not totally sure if I'm keeping it, yet...but, thus far, I am really feeling this horn and will be doing many different play-tests in front of many different people for the next two weeks.

...as for the topic of the post...I am Eb all the way. In my experience, it's just a more versatile horn due to the ease of the low-register and how easy it is to change the tone colors (light/solo sound to dark/orchestral sound).

[Wyvern]

As someone who has grown up playing Eb, but now also has an F. I would say the Eb is a much more adaptable and useful tuba in what it can play with a pretty decent low register.

However there is something about the clear tone of an F which gives it a special singing quality - a bit like the difference between viola and violin.

All a matter of choice - aim to have both eventually if you can!

We are very luck playing tuba, that it includes such tonal diversity.

[MartyNeilan]

Here is my take: the big difference between F and Eb is not the KEY, but the design / style fo the tuba:
Most F tubas are "German" style tubas and most Eb tubas are either "American" or "British" style tubas. The difference in leadpipe length, overall taper, placement of the valves in that taper, bell flare, bell height, etc make much more difference than the approximate 18 inches in length.
Warning: Controversial...
Considering the above based on design and not key, I would make the following analogy:
An F tuba has slightly more "trombone" like qualities and an Eb tuba has slightly more "euphonium" qualities. Meaning by trombone: more variations in tone color, more "edge" to the sound. Meaning by euphonium: very consistent tone color, both from low to high and soft to loud.

[Allen]

Here is my take: the big difference between F and Eb is not the KEY, but the design / style fo the tuba: ... ...

Marty has the essence of it, although he is much more polite than I am. I'll say that this F/Eb business is nonsense, just like that ever-popular BBb/CC business. I have an Eb tuba that is so small that people sometimes mistake it for a euphonium. I can assure you that its low range degenerates to a rattle (although it can be played loudly). My F tuba is a monster by comparison, with an excellent solid low range (and its high range sings -- it's not a contrabass tuba).

I would say that the F/Eb choice depends more on local custom and personal preference. There seem to be more different F tubas to choose among. The main thing to determine is whether you want a large or a small bass tuba -- or both!

Cheers,
Allen

[k001k47]

We cant all have pocket F tubas like Alan Baer...

We can if we're 12 feet tall!

[Rick Denney]

In another equipment thread in days gone by, a professional tubist I admire very much said:

The instrument is meaningless. Your sound and musicianship are paramount.

Your choice of instrument is the extension of the sound that is in your head.

-Matt

This is all the TRVTH any of us needs.

With the right sound and musicianship, you can play a Bb in orchestra. Or a C. Or anything.

If learning to play a different pitch tuba is troublesome, then that is a sign that should be considered when making career choices. By "troublesome", I don't mean "inconvenient". I mean "difficult" or "unattainable".

If the bass tuba that fits your expressive intentions is an Eb, then play Eb. If it's an F, then play F. If you don't know, then the time is not right for a bass tuba. Only amateurs like me have the privilege of using the lack of knowing fingerings as an excuse.

Rick "too amateurish to learn them all" Denney