Interesting airline story...

[Arkietuba]

I don't know why I seem to have people attacking me no matter what I post (I know it's only a few people, the rest of you guys/gals are just fine)...it's quite humorous now.

Anyway, No...we didn't have any cheese on our KLM flight. We did have some great crackers actually!

Our trip was primarily financed through loans from local banks as well as donations. Each member of the Wind Ensemble had to pay $750. I don't have the money, neither does my family...so my birthday present from everyone was the $750 (plus the $180 for the expiditied passport). Our department did what they could to ensure that we had the best possible equipment. They paid to have the school's CCs worked on and have them in "top" shape (they're 40 year old Miraphone CCs that have seen better days). They even rented all of the percussion and even a string bass...we tried to get tubas but we couldn't. The flight cases didn't work out either...so we brought the school's CC tubas on the trip.

[Arkietuba]

Our trip was primarily financed through loans from local banks as well as donations. Each member of the Wind Ensemble had to pay $750. I don't have the money, neither does my family...so my birthday present from everyone was the $750 (plus the $180 for the expiditied passport).

BRAVO...except for the band director/administrators irresponsible decisions to subject very good (1960's Mirafone...??) CC tubas - and their newish carrying cases - to nearly certain damage (particularly right after they had just been repaired).

Well, to be fair...we had money to get flight cases but no one on here had any for us to use and no one in Arkansas has one apparently. We used that money to have the horns "fixed" for the trip so we could play on the "best" possible horns in Austria.

Our Music Dept. Chairman is a tuba player and used to teach at E. Carolina (Dr. Jeff Jarvis). He tried to help us out as much as possible but our SGA here hates the music dept. for some reason (at least the instrumental side).

On a brighter note, everyone over there loves music. I was blown away with how many instrumentalists I saw in Vienna and Salzburg. I even saw a tuba player and tried to get a picture but he ran into the opera house before I had the chance. Every audience we had was so welcoming and supportive of us. It was awesome...I want to go back.

I have some pictures from a museum exhibition of old instruments in Vienna. I'll try to post them ASAP.

[euphomate]

I had an EEb tuba shipped from the USA to Australia some time back by Ferguson Music in California. The horn came with a pretty basic gig bag, and I was worried about how much damage would be done by the shipping company and the American Airlines commercial flight it came on. Ferguson double-boxed the horn, filling all spaces with polystyrene buds, and inserted an inflated beach ball in the bell. It arrived in perfect condition, which to be honest surprised me. I expected to have to repair some damage after a trip half way across the world.

[Getzeng50s]

Trust me when I tell you they won't let you past the counter...just make sure your instrument is very well packed...

I have been behind the counter numerous times when traveling with my horn. You just have to show up early, and know exactly who to talk to, and how to talk to them.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

I have been behind the counter numerous times when traveling with my horn. You just have to show up early, and know exactly who to talk to, and how to talk to them.

To be sure, I shouldn't have made such a sweeping statement. There are always exceptions to any rule. I should have said the policy of the airline I was working for, at the time I was working for them (when restrictions were far less than they are now), was that no customers were allowed in the areas where baggage and freight are loaded/unloaded. I don't recall seeing any "exceptions," but frankly I wasn't paying that much attention to who was around when I was loading or unloading baggage.

I would also like to take just a moment to stand up for the airline employees...very, very few of them are out to damage your property (at least, the ones I worked with weren't). Sometimes there is a great deal of "stuff" to be moved in an unadequate amount of time to do the job gently. Your attention to packing (again, listen to Bloke here...he knows his stuff) is paramount to receiving your property safely on the other end of a flight.

It would be interesting to hear more of the story of how you got "behind the counter" and if it made a difference (in your opinion) in the handling of your instrument...I would guess that with you watching, the employees would be a bit more careful.

[Rick Denney]

Random thoughts:

1. Airlines don't control access to baggage areas any more. The TSA does. And they care not a fig for your concern about your tuba. If you try to follow it beyond their inspection point, you will be barred from doing so.

2. The inflatable ball in the bell moves the stress from bending at the rim (where it is extremely weak) to hoop stress in the throat, which is all tension and where the bell structure is quite strong. And move the valve springs from under the valves to between the valves and the valve caps, so that the valve will be held all the way down during travel.

3. A double-wall cardboard shipping carton is how the manufacturers ship tubas to the U.S. from where they are made. They usually ship the cases separately. (I bet Yamaha is an exception, but than I bet they put the tuba in the case, and the case in a shipping carton with all that padding.) The tuba will be wrapped in a plastic bag, and cradled in foam peanuts within the box with at least four inches of padding on all sides.

4. A tuba in a clear plastic bag will probably fare better, on average, that a tuba in a plastic case. This was something I learned from professional triathletes who travel with bicycles that cost as much as tubas, and that are also fragile. Most of them use big hard cases and deal with the resulting damage. But several clever ones just put them in clear plastic bags, the way Europeans fly with their bicycles. The baggage handlers think a big hard case is strong, and treat it roughly. I don't know anybody with the guts to test this theory, and tubas are not equipped with reasonable carrying handles. But go part way: The baggage handler knows that anything in a cardboard box might be damaged if it is dropped from a significant distance. I bet they will be more careful with a cardboard shipping carton than with a hard case.

5. Shipping cartons can often be obtained from tuba dealers at nominal cost, and certainly MUCH cheaper than the cost of a flight case.

6. An egg in a steel box will break if subjected to enough G forces, or if allowed to even mildly contact the steel wall of the box.

7. Proper insurance is a must.

Rick "who wonders if the motivation behind most band trips has anything to do with what is really good for the students" Denney

[Getzeng50s]

It would be interesting to hear more of the story of how you got "behind the counter" and if it made a difference (in your opinion) in the handling of your instrument...I would guess that with you watching, the employees would be a bit more careful.

The personal relationship that I made with everyone behind the counter, when speaking to managers about the size, and content of the instrument was the best thing I could have done (to be treated well). The last time I flew with my horn, I was given first class upgrades for free round trip due to the cost of the overages and hassle of the situation (the flight personnel liked me and felt bad).

However, they were completely different from the baggage handlers who loaded my horn on the plane. There was no communication (other than a warning tag on the tuba letting them know it was BIG and 76 pounds (HEAVY!)) between the desk and the handlers. So no matter how good the personnel are behind the counter, it’s completely up to the handler weather or not your horn gets damaged (as long as your horn is in proper flight case).

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Yet another example of poor communication on my part.

When I said "they won't let you past the counter," I didn't mean just right behind the ticket counter where the Customer Service Reps (who are better paid than Ramp Agents and trained to make customers feel special) work. I meant actually going downstairs and on the tarmac where the freight is handled. No amount of smooth-talking to the CSRs is going to change how your tuba is handled, as you seem to already realize.

I was under the impression you were able to speak to a supervisor and have some influence over how your tuba was handled...totally outside of my experiences for someone to be able to do that.

Todd S. "who meant farther "behind the counter" than he made clear" Malicoate

[Rick F]

<Snip>
> If it's a euphonium...Who cares?

Oops - my foe count just went up by one.

[TubaRay]

<Snip>
> If it's a euphonium...Who cares?

Oops - my foe count just went up by one.

Can't say that I blame you for upping your count. Although I am a tuba player, I am not into putting down euphonium people. They get that enough without having me contribute to the problem.

[The Jackson]

I guess I got really lucky a year ago when one of my school's bands went up to Maryland. I didn't give packing the Yammie YBB-641 a second thought and just slapped it in the [already beaten-up] Yamaha case it came with. It came back with not apparent damage.

[windshieldbug]

Oh Boy - It's on now...

Yep, and I'm driving right through your marching band formation to tell you how it is!

[KevinMadden]

buy a second seat and gig bag it! I know it's much more expensive, but your horn will never leave your side. This past October, Busch Gardens decided to call up its summer Festhaus crew and send us to St. Louis to play some shows at Grant's Farm. (the A.B. estate) cast members were coming from schools all over the country, and all expenses were paid. I got two seats, one for me, one for my tuba in gig bag. (tickets actually read; Kevin P. Madden, and Kevin P. Madden's tuba ) Outside of dealing with some jokes in secruity ("hey, play something to prove its real heh heh" ) and being slightly accosted on the tarmac while boarding the plane ( "Hey that won't fit!", "I have a ticket for it!", "It won't fit!", I have a TICKET for it!", "It won't fit!", I HAVE A TICKET FOR IT!!", "oh, it has its own ticket.. move along" ) It was a great way to travel with my horn.

[sungfw]

buOutside of dealing with some jokes in secruity ("hey, play something to prove its real heh heh" ) and being slightly accosted on the tarmac while boarding the plane ( "Hey that won't fit!", "I have a ticket for it!", "It won't fit!", I have a TICKET for it!", "It won't fit!", I HAVE A TICKET FOR IT!!", "oh, it has its own ticket.. move along" ) It was a great way to travel with my horn.

Did you pull it out and play "Nearer My God to Thee" when you hit turbulence? I always find it soothing, but for some reason folks around me don't seem to appreciate it.

[windshieldbug]

I always find it soothing, but for some reason folks around me don't seem to appreciate it.

Just tell people to jump up, right when then plane hits the ground; that way it won't hurt!

[Casey Tucker]

you know, the funny thing about traveling is that it seems that when traveling to china with both of my horns there was no damage, but when traveling to philly last year with one horn, TSA put a rather large dent into the bottom bow. notice, i said TSA. yes, the airline does get careless and they will on occasion toss your horn around but TSA is where the real danger lies. they're the ones that open it up, take it out, put it back in, slip in that 'all to nice' notification and close it on up. i think if anything that needs to be reformed for musicians regarding flying is the handling of the instruments. just my $.02.

-casey