Contra Tubas

[Leland]

*note: I voted "yes", because I have used them (only since 1988) and still do.

Why is it that they are so underused?

Well, because a lot of them suck.

No, really, most marching tubas are pretty awful, especially the ones that band instrument manufacturers were slapping together in the mid 70's to the mid 80's. They were often too small to create a worthwhile sound and/or were ergonomic disasters, whether they had bad hand positions, poor sightlines through tubing, or just too front-heavy. Many of those designs have not gone away.

Sousaphones do get a big sound, and they have that traditional look that even I wouldn't abandon. Can you imagine Ohio State's marching band "dotting the 'I'" with a contra-style marching tuba? I sure can't.

King's large K90 contrabass from about 1981 was the first truly capable marching tuba, but it certainly wasn't adopted outside of drum corps -- it was still in G with two piston valves and a half-step slide. DEG/Dynasty/Willson responded with a pretty darn good Super Magnum contra, even building them with 3 valves for the European drum corps circuits a few years before DCI allowed their use in the US.

The current crop of BBb non-convertible marching tubas from Kanstul, Yamaha, Dynasty, and King (so far) are turning out to be really good instruments by any standard.

Does that make them the best choice for "your marching band"? Maybe, maybe not.

If you use flip folders to play an hour's worth of music in the stands, do a lot of step-2 drill, have 5' tall 90-pound players, and enjoy dancing down a parade route (which is good -- it does help pass the time), sousaphones are still the better choice. They allow things that are either difficult or highly impractical for marching tubas.

If, however, you have a field show style that has a lot of sideways movement, and have strong players (preferably ones that eat raw meat ), marching tubas can do a very good job. They're better suited for marching in multiple directions because their entire mass is above the shoulders; there's no bottom half to bang against the player's hips. Take the time to work on fundamentals of body control, and players will be able to handle marching tubas with grace & power.

Which do *I* prefer to use?

It depends.

[Dylan King]

When you say "contra-tuba" I thought you meant BBBb. There aren't too many of those around. I voted "no". It is also a no if you meant G tuba. So what's the deal?

[Leland]

Whether in G or a more normal key, the style of tuba is the key point.

Here's one of the better ones I've used:

[Leland]

Relevant links:

Dynasty -- look at the bottom two, the M875 and M880. The M845 on that page is what I described earlier -- as a POS.
http://www.dynastyband.com/dynasty.php? ... ng%20Brass

Yamaha's latest:
http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/Con ... 57,00.html#

Kanstul:
http://kanstul.com/pages/instruments/ma ... t200m.html

... and if King actually HAD a web presence, I might be able to give a link to their stuff as well.

[Leland]

He meant Contra voice of the Bugle.

Oh yeah -- to clarify this naming thing:

The bugle voices were named like the voices in a choir. Sopranos are at the high end, altos in the midvoice (including mellophones, French horns (yes, even in G), and alto bugles, plus sometimes fluegels), baritones & euphs in the baritone voice, and contrabasses at the bottom.

The terminology skips straight to "contrabass" partly because they're in the same register as contrabass tubas, and also because the baritones were once called "bass baritones". Contras didn't arrive on the drum corps scene until the end of the 1950's and weren't in general use until the mid-60's.

[Contramark]

The terminology skips straight to "contrabass" partly because they're in the same register as contrabass tubas, and also because the baritones were once called "bass baritones". Contras didn't arrive on the drum corps scene until the end of the 1950's and weren't in general use until the mid-60's.

Interesting tid bit of info. The very first practical contra basses were designed by Zig kanstul for velvet knights.

Zig does amazing work. H ewas a driving force behind the "King" bugles of the 80's. He then designed 3 valve horns that my corps used from 90-99. Then they switched to dynasty (well willson tubas with DEG stamped on the bell). The kanstul 3 valve Contrabass grande was the best marching horn I have ever played. it fit so well on your body, they were big mo fo's, but there was even a small section that you could see through the tubing on the left.

Zig is amazing.

What corps did you guys march?

Mark

[Leland]

The very first practical contra basses were designed by Zig kanstul for velvet knights.

Zig does amazing work.

Those were done with Besson outer branches, too. He did most or all of the p-r Olds bugle line and indeed the King 2-piston bugles (although the contra was by another King designer; the later 3-valve contras were of the concept originally intended by Zig for the King).

I marched with the Railmen from Omaha from '87 to '92, and taught there through '95 (I rode the transition from Union Pacific sponsorship to independence and, eventually, financial oblivion); then, Empire Statesmen in '97, '98, and 2000; I've been in the US Marine D&B since 2001 (looking to reenlist in November); and squeezed in a season with Brigadiers in 2003.

I also own a King contra, original nonchromatic 2 valves, all original parts except for the two bell braces. I got to borrow a big Kanstul for '03 Brigs, and THAT horn was a lot of fun to play.

[Paul S]

I think part of the reason you don't see contras used that much in marching bands is that they are too directional. If you're playing to fill a stadium full of 80,000 drunken football fans, aiming for the pressbox doesn't cut it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think sousaphones tend to be more diffuse in their sound distribution. Plus you can have lots more fun jumping around like an idiot without worrying about dropping, breaking or otherwise trashing a contra.

I was section leader at the University of Cincinnati when we received a set of eight Conn convertibles back in 1980 just after Dr. Terry Milligan had came to CCM and took over the marching band as well. The laser sound of the contra configuration was what I disliked most. It was strong and overpowering if you were seated on the home side fifty yard line but the tubas seemed to be totally non existent anywhere else in the stadium. I volunteered to take the best tuba players back to our old Conn Sousaphones to round out the overall sound for the marching band and it made a world of difference. We did do some shows with the Conn convertibles configured as concert style uprights and I preferred that to over the shoulder. I have only seen a few bands march with uprights and tuba straps but I love both the full diffuse sound and the look.

As a plus to using sousaphones at UC, we got to participate in the pre-game Charge Down the Stadium Steps after playing an opening fanfare at the very top of the stadium. The contra configured tubas and drum line had to watch us from down below.

[MaryAnn]

Whether in G or a more normal key, the style of tuba is the key point.

Here's one of the better ones I've used:

<picture left out>

Oh, I can just SEE me trying to play one of those!! Squish city.
MA

[Lew]

I know, why don't they just make sousaphones with the bells facing up? That way the sound would not be as directional. Oh wait... that's how they started out.

[Leland]

But I will give you that the horns are probably more directional then Sousaphones.

Dude, make that "definitely" instead of "probably".

Some contras are more directional than others, too. The Kings seemed to have a broader sound and could get really loud before they sounded ugly. The big DEGs sounded deeper and "wetter", at least until they reached their volume limit, at which point they became blatty in a hurry.

The large Kanstuls project really well, too. When Santa Clara showed up with them in '92, I was amazed by the sound. Then, BD came on later that night with a pure, smooth, almost electric walking bass line near the beginning of "Blue Light, Red Light", and I was sold. As long as they were played with control, the Kanstul contras sounded fantastic.

The new BBb marching tubas are definitely brighter than the G (actually "GG") contras, and I'm not sure that I like their sound as much. But, the Bb/F vs. G is a debate that I'm tired of, so I'll just leave it at that.

My favorite sousaphone sound is still King. Conn 20K's always sounded either woofy or splatty to me (of course, that may have been because of how U of Neb.-Lincoln played them), but a good King section could achieve a really clean, clear sound from fifty yards away.