San Francisco Bay Area M-W 182 - please remove

[bill]

Dear Friends,

I have just gotten a new M-W 182 and had asked Glenn Cronkhite to make a bag for me. He is reluctant to do it because he has never made one and, when the TubaDome people measured the horn, per his instruction sheet, the horn seems much to small, to him. He and I talked and, while on the phone, my wife and I remeasured it and confirmed the TubaDome measurements. Glenn is reluctant to make the bag unless he can get a real live 182 for making the pattern. He suggested I post a request, here, for anyone in the San Francisco Bay area with an M-W 182 to allow him to make a tracing of the horn so he can make a pattern. He is willing to travel to you to do it unless you can get to his place in Berkeley. I would appreciate your help, if you qualify for this and are willing to help.

Plan B would be to learn what sorts of bags those of you with M-W 182 F tubas use, if not a Glenn bag. If you don't mind my asking, would you post suggestions, here?

Thanks for all your help,

I have edited this to request we stop posting here and asked Sean to remove the post. Glenn has gone out of his way to accommodate my request for a bag. Sean, I can privately forward to you the e-mail exchange, from this thread I created, at Glenn's urging, to see if we could solve a problem and will try to do it in this space, although it is somewhat long. He is upset, and rightly so, at the insinuation that he has any ulterior motive on his part in this other than making a useful bag. And, since I do not feel he has been anything except conciliatory, business like and concerned for making my bag correctly, I can see that he thinks what was written here, taken as a whole, is negative toward him. I have nothing but the highest regard for him and, as you can see in the e-mail, he is really going out on a limb to make this bag for me with measurements I have submitted. Can you delete this thread (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30175" target="_blank" target="_blank) from the TubeNet forum? I would so appreciate it if you could. Glenn does not deserve this sort of hassle.

[Rick Denney]

...when the TubaDome people measured the horn, per his instruction sheet, the horn seems much to small, to him...

Just send him a picture of Mary Ann holding her 182. That should solve the problem for him.



Rick "noting that the 182 does look very small next to a normal-sized human" Denney

[bill]

Just send him a picture of Mary Ann holding her 182. That should solve the problem for him.

[Rick "noting that the 182 does look very small next to a normal-sized human" Denney

http://s269.photobucket.com/albums/jj54 ... 182009.jpg

This is me holding my M-W 182. My guess is that MA is quite petite. I am 5'9" and about 160 lbs. The horn really is quite small. Glenn and I have measured the horn (or, rather, my wife and I have, at his directions, in a phone call) and TubaDome also measured it. We both got the same dimensions but these horns are quite small, thus the problem finding a soft case for it. The horn is 31" tall and the bell is 14".

[sc_curtis]

I also have a MW 182, and would love to order one as well from Glenn as soon as he has these measurements. Can anyone in the area help out? I'll shoot him an email and tell him I am interested in a bag as well.

[bill]

Desperation Bump

[Rick Denney]

Desperation Bump

Bill, you might have to think of something else. Perhaps a series of digital photos, with a cloth tape measure stretched this way and that according to Glenn's instructions. I am 100% positive that it would be possible to physically characterize the instrument in photos, assuming Glenn can translate such information into three dimensions (which I assume he can). He just needs to realize that the 182 is a traditionally sized F tuba, more like the F tubas of old than the B&S and post-B&S monster F's that most folks use these days.

Another alternative, if you are really desperate, would be to ship him your tuba, have him make a custom bag for it, and ship both back to you. But since it is already apparent that he'll make at least one more sale using that pattern, he should participate in the cost.

Finally, do give Dave Fedderly a call. He has sold a number of these, and might know of someone in the bay area who has one.

Personally, for a tuba that size, I would also look into a hard case. My Yamaha 621, which is about the same size, came in a hard case, and it's small enough to be easily manageable.

Rick "preferring a hard case when it can be carried in one hand and put in a normal car" Denney

[bill]

Thanks, Rick. As always you offer good alternatives and sound advice. I would have gone, originally for a hard case but, as age creeps slowly in to my life, I find carrying something any distance is not possible except on my back. This horn weighs one pound less than a Miraphone 184 and that, for which I have a Glenn bag, is rather difficult to manage in its case but eminently possible in a back pack bag. It is too late to go to the solution of not getting old. I have owned a YFB 621 and have a pretty good idea of how they work in a case. Glenn mentioned the 621 case and that the dimensions seem to be a bit larger than this horn. (For instance, the 621 bell shows 20" and this bell is slightly under 14".)

As for shipping the horn to Glenn, I would have done that but I was assured that the sellers would take an in stock horn and measure it for Glenn and the bag and the horn would arrive together. The seller did not do that, I am guessing because the "in stock" status from his web site was either in error or from a time when they actually had one or two but had not updated the web site. So I was confronted with a horn and with no means to safely carry it about. The seller measured the horn when he got it and sent that to Glenn and sent the horn to me. Had I known this was all going to transpire, I would have suggested shipping it to Glenn and then to me, at the same cost, to me as shipping it directly to me.

What I have suggested is photographing the M-W 182 in the case for a M-W 2182 (the case that works for a Miraphone 184, too) and show how it fits. Then to construct padding so it is snug, show the padding (Styrofoam?) in the bag with the horn and infer the new dimensions from that. This is under consideration . . .

As for the "monster F's" - I have been playing a WIllson 3400 for 90 percent of what I do and know the concept. I think it will do anything a CC will do unless it is some CC I would have to hire a moving company to carry around for me. This sounds too much like playing the grand piano.

Rick, thanks again for your interest and suggestions. The middle of a problem is a difficult place from which to see the solution but we will get there.

[Rick Denney]

Glenn mentioned the 621 case and that the dimensions seem to be a bit larger than this horn. (For instance, the 621 bell shows 20" and this bell is slightly under 14".)

The 621 is not anywhere near that big (even the 822 bell is only 18", as I recall). It also has a 14.something-inch bell, and though I don't have it here to measure, I doubt it's more than 31 inches tall. It isn't shaped quite the same as a 182, and it's probably deeper front to back because of the front-action pistons. The upper bow is higher on the instrument, and the bell has a larger throat and less flare. I suspect the bottom bow has a tighter radius on the 621 than on the 182. But I would not be surprised if a gig bag for a 621 worked just fine for a 182.

You could always have him send you a bag for a 621 to try out, and if it didn't fit, tell him how it didn't fit, and that might help him interpret the measurements properly. Or, maybe, there's someone in your area with a Cronkhite bag for a YFB-621 that you could try.

Rick "who could measure a 621 if that would help" Denney

[sc_curtis]

Another alternative, if you are really desperate, would be to ship him your tuba, have him make a custom bag for it, and ship both back to you. But since it is already apparent that he'll make at least one more sale using that pattern, he should participate in the cost.

Bill, I know you don't want to do this, but seeing as I would benefit from Glenn having the dimensions for the 182, I would be more than happy to help with the cost of shipping the horn, if you should so choose this route.

[imperialbari]

Why all that fuzz? This time RD is right. Take high resolution photos with an axis perpendicular to these six planes:

front
back
bell side
large branch side
bell flare
bottom bow

Placing a measure reference in the photo will not be terribly significant. Rather provide the exact bell diameter, height, with, and all the other measurements wanted by the bag maker.

It would be possible to enter the information and the photos in a 3D frame of reference and create a 3D model exact enough to make the bag. Photos do not equal the tuba maker’s blueprints as they represent a perspective view rather than a cut through the tuba, but the differences would be insignificant.

What I tend to read between the lines, is that the bag maker isn’t really willing to make one more design for a supposedly small market niche.

Shipping the tuba forth and back across the continent just to have it measured is totally out of proportions regarding the shipping costs as well as regarding the risk always inherent in shipping a tuba.

Tell the maker, that if the bag comes out too smal, it always may find a use for a euphonium (my original US-made Blues Reunion bag sits extremely tight on my 11" euphonium).

The only problem I may see with the design is that Bill’s version of this tuba has a 5th valve with two horns on the top and a folded back slide, whereas Smurphina’s has the 5th slide protruding further above the top bow.

K

[bill]

Well, more great ideas so, let's first see if anyone in the Portland, Oregon, area has a YFB 621 Cronkhite bag and can invite me over to try it on. PM me if you can help out. Thanks.