Most common method for converting to a horn in a new key

[tubaman5150]

Your biggest challenge will be stuff you played before on BBb. I would stay away from old solos and etudes until your solid with the fingerings. You may have to just tough out whatever ensemble pieces your doing.
Now would be a good time to move into some new etude books and solos. New material seems to help the transition and sidestep whatever muscle memory you developed on older pieces.
Scales help alot, but include the arppegios (chords played one note at a time). This forces you to think about the notes, instead of repeating old patterns. Of course, sightreading always helps.
The holidays are a great time to start something like this, because you can devote more time to learning at your own pace.

[Getzeng50s]

Practice... Lots of practice

[corbasse]

... I would stay away from old solos and etudes until your solid with the fingerings.,..

Maybe it's better not to stay away from this stuff alltogether. I would suggest taking your first etudes, solos and method books (the really simple stuff) and restart practicing those with the new fingerings. That's also a good opportunity to check up on your breath support, sound, articulation etc.

[ArnoldGottlieb]

I really agree with playing the simple stuff. You know what it sounds like, and so it's easy to correct. I might try any etude book that goes thru all keys, try the first etude in each new key. I do this if I've played a lot of BBb and am going to play CC or the other way around. And above all, don't get frustrated and remember that it's fun to play. (That's why we call it PLAY). Peace. ASG

[dopey]

I haven't switched to CC yet, but I have decided to give this a "try". I've been told by some its a good ideas, and others its not.

Im learning to read treble clef Bb, By note name recognition. Example, Where I can go F=1 G = 0 Bb = 1.. Etc. Then take this knowledge and apply it to a the note names on the BASS clef when playing a CC tuba. If you think about it, the fingerings will be correct if you think when yous ee the F below hte staff a "F" on Bb treble. Ofcourse i've been told this will possibly not work since the notes produced will not be the ones i'd have already related to my mind from playing Bb treble. (A F on Bb treble is a Concert Eb..)

I figure to give this a try, It cant' hurt in my opinion. Either way Im leaning to read Bb treble which will be benecficial.

Just my theory on how I plan to learn,

Jacob

P.S. Im not saying I plan to always do this, I figure over time I will stop linking Bb treble and bass together. This will just give me a way to find fingerings quickly and reliably when first learning CC tuba. I dont' plan on using this as a transposing, or any kind of conversion permantly.

[Z-Tuba Dude]

There is certainly nothing wrong with learning to read treble clef (Bb fingerings), but it seems to me that you will be adding an unnecessary step into the process of learning bass clef, CC tuba fingerings, making it more confusing!

The advice given earlier is best, I think. Play simple music in bass clef, using CC fingerings, until you feel comfortable with those fingerings (it is best not to think of similarities to the fingerings of other keyed tubas, just learn the CC fingerings as if you were learning a whole new instrument ~~ like saxophone! ). Then gradually work your way up to increasingly more complex music.

Learning treble clef, as a separate skill, is very worthwhile, as it opens up a whole world of other music to you.

Good luck!

[Tom]

Here's what I did when I learned CC and F. Perhaps you'll see something interesting to try.

Some suggestions:

1. Play Scales
Be sure that you are thinking about what scale you are playing, what notes you are playing, and what fingerings you are using...in that order. I would not recommend going "ok...the C scale on CC tuba is like the BBb scale on BBb tuba." They are indeed the open scales on CC and BBb respectively, but the pitches are different. Thinking like that would confuse me anyway...

2. Relearn your Ensemble Music
Relearn your band/orchestra music on your new horn. It will be difficult at first because you will want to do it the same way you've done it on BBb simply because of the muscle memory. If you think about the notes, the intonation, and the fingering, you'll do ok and you'll know how to play your music on your new tuba. This works even better if you're in a "sink or swim" situation where you just have to jump right in on the CC. I also like this method because you're dealing with notes and rhythms you already know...it cuts out some of the work and lets you concentrate on the right notes/good intonation/fingerings.

3. Start learning new music
Pick out some pieces and ONLY play them on your CC. This will help your sightreading ability on the new horn BIG TIME.

4. Sightread
Get a book like the Vandercook Etudes and play a couple of them a day on CC until you can't play them wrong. Everyday add a new one but go back and play the previous ones first. Before you know it, you'll know a whole book of little etudes and you'll be able to read CC fingerings with ease.

5. Circle of 5ths
This actually goes with scales. Play around the circle of 5ths by memory. You'll get away from fingering and learn notes really well this way.

[tubaman5150]

... I would stay away from old solos and etudes until your solid with the fingerings.,..

Maybe it's better not to stay away from this stuff alltogether. I would suggest taking your first etudes, solos and method books (the really simple stuff) and restart practicing those with the new fingerings. That's also a good opportunity to check up on your breath support, sound, articulation etc.

My reasoning behind this is that is always better to replace old habits instead of trying to modify them. If your constantly fighting old fingerings that are engrained in muscle memory, it slows the learning of new ones. You can certainly come back to older material with much better results.
I can see your point about sticking to the easier old stuff, but I would leave it at that. Of course, everyone learns in their own way.

[Tom]

My take on "old stuff:"

Trying to tear through the Blazhevich or Kopprasch (or the like) etudes that you've been playing for years as soon as you get a new horn in a different key is going to just frustrate the crap out of you because you won't have the background to do it.

My first priority would not be to play all of my old stuff. My first priority would be to make playing CC (or whatever key it is) automatic by getting the basics down cold. I would (and did) relearn my wind ensemble and orchestra music on CC so that I didn't have to go back to the BBb for it, but other than that, I didn't worry too much about going back through all of the music I did on BBb on the new CC because I had a different focus (see previous post).

It doesn't matter if you're playing old stuff or not, to be honest...you'll still fight those muscle memory issues and you'll still find yourself having fingering slip ups...I know I did for a while. It just takes time and practice. Talking about all of this makes it seem way worse than it really is too.

[jmerring]

I have a reverse problem, sort of. I play BBb in a couple concert bands and sometimes have to watch fingerings the player next to me, to keep in place. This is fine with one band, wherein the player I'm referencing is in BBb also, but in one band the guy is in CC. I have started mentally picturing the music as played in CC, then I screw up my own! Thank God it doesn't happen too often.

[corbasse]

My take on "old stuff:"

Trying to tear through the Blazhevich or Kopprasch (or the like) etudes that you've been playing for years as soon as you get a new horn in a different key is going to just frustrate the crap out of you because you won't have the background to do it.
.....you'll still fight those muscle memory issues and you'll still find yourself having fingering slip ups...I know I did for a while. It just takes time and practice. Talking about all of this makes it seem way worse than it really is too.

I don't think Blazhevich or Kopprasch are considered really easy. They're not very technical, but if you can play those really well you can play about anything. I was thinking more in the lines of tune a day, Mary had a little lamb etc... Thereby, "tearing" through studies you've done a zillion times before never accomplished anything. Carefull, slow, concentraded, 200% focussed practice of a study you've done a zillion times before can accomplish a great deal

I think you're maybe a bit too concerned about the muscle memory issue. I'm a french horn player, and we get told regulary by our teachers "right. Next week the same study in Eb, C and Bb" (or D, Ab and B nat. if you're more advanced) We're not going to learn three new different fingering patterns that week...

It's only four fingers, and all the patterns stay the same. If you start with Tune A Day book one, you're not going to be messing up your fingerings too often

[djwesp]

as crazy as this may sound...

1.get yourself a ring that fits on at least two fingers on your hand...

2. when you play cc put the ring on one finger...

3. when you play the other key... put the ring on the other finger...



although this method sounds absolutely crazy, if you give your mind a physical association to one key... it is much easier to switch back and forth... i currently play on Bflat sousa, CC horn, Eb Besson, and an occaisional F horn, and that has been the method that works best for me...

take any college psych course

[Billy M.]

((slaps self with metal object))

Oooh! Can I do that too!?

Seriously, I think if you spend enough time going back over fundamentals when converting, such as scales and yes even writing in fingerings all the time, it'll become more natural. Usually takes 1 month with practice most every day to get familiar and about 3 months to get comfortable.