Which one should I use?

[David Richoux]

snip

If one could cobble a 4th valve on to one of those (as the low range DOES "pop"), it could indeed be a super-duper little "easy-play" quintet tuba for some folks. I remember (back in the '80's at some ad hoc music festival) hearing a brass ensemble (all trombones EXCEPT for a tuba) where the tuba player (standing up and running all over the place - as there was some comedy involved) played one of these. He got some SOUND out of that thing! (I seem to recall them playing "Sabre Dance" - with the tuba and all the trombones chasing each other around, etc...)

You are most likely remembering "The Brass Band" from the San Francisco Bay Area - - I saw them many times. All were local symphonic trained pros tired of sitting around waiting for gigs, so they formed the quintet. Great players and they had a fun time with the stage business and clowning. At least one "world tour" and several recordings were produced, (LP “Just A Tiny Boo-Boo” and "Live & In Debt" EP, and a cassette only story-book thing with Jimby) but the band disappeared by the 1990s. . .
- there are a few Youtube clips of them, mostly from a Japan tour -
Teddy Bear's Picnic
Orange Blossom Special
Climb Every Mountain
Stars and Stripes Forever

Personnel at the time of their “Just A Tiny Boo-Boo” recording:
CPL. Louis Tooloose (Bob Leach) Trumpets
Jimby (Jim Aaron) Trumpets
The Captain (Bob Jennings) Trombone and Tuba
Buford (Phineas T. Buford III ) Baritone Horn, and Alto Horn, Trombone, Tuba
Fritz Frümheimer (Johannes Mager) Tuba, Trombone
(there have been other members of the group.)

I have a 103 also - it is a very useful little horn but it has some awkward water collection points - I should put some taps on them, but never got around to it... The 621s have the same bell and major bow dimensions, but the valves are much better quality and I think they use better sheet metal in the construction.

[ljdalen]

I have my own Holton Mammoth that I got at the end of high school (1977) and played as my principal instrument until 2006. In college,they purchased a new 186 (1979). At the time, I immediately sent off the Holton to have the valves replated. When the Holton came back, the 186 was no match to the Holton and it was provided to another student as a school horn. The Holton has been a great all-around tuba for orchestra, solo, chamber music and band. It comes back to sound. A large (or really large) tuba can play as quietly as a small tuba.

John

[iiipopes]

OK, let's put it this way. You can use a BAT for chamber work. But it's like using a Hummer or Ferrari to go to the grocery store. It will get the job done, but unless you're really used to it and good at it, like Pat with his 34-35mm mouthpieces, it's going to take more control and is much less efficient for a small space. OTOH, any standard sedan will do well, and you can take the kids along and not need a babysitter, and its more economical with gasoline consumption.

Another example: I have a Marshall 100watt head. Yes, I use it to really rattle the rafters on the rare gig like that I get anymore. I can also use it in my bedroom to rehearse. But the fine adjustments to be able to stay in the same room with it and not blow out my ears or the neighbor's goodwill takes a really fine tune on the adjustment, especially if I want it open up a little. OTOH, I have a little 17-watt Blues Jr with the same preamp stack and one 12-inch speaker that I can dial in a broader range of dynamic and tonality befitting the song for rehearsal, home practice, etc.

Same with tubas. A 4/4 tuba, for most mere mortals, is more easily controllable, portable, and versatile for quintet/other small ensemble/concert band in section with others/etc., than is a BAT.

And the other extreme, the 103, well, you wouldn't want to carry tuba to a gig in a Tango commuter, would you?!

[Wyvern]

Use the 24J, but with fineness and maybe a shallow cup mouthpiece.

It may be the perceived wisdom to use something smaller, but a BAT can be played quietly and lightly and does not have to overpower. Using in a quintet will be great to improve your skills on the big tuba

Jonathan "who thinks it better to have surplus power, to being underpowered"

[Bob Kolada]

My band played with a junior high/high school band a while back. The only tuba player had a 103; I thought it had a great sound but didn't ask to try it.

Going off that and the posted youtube videos, I vote for the 103 with a shallower mouthpiece though you could always use both depending on what music you're playing. If you do go that route, you might look into trading the 103 for a small clean Eb tuba. It should be an easy trade, would allow you to get used to playing a different key of brass instrument, and would provide a sweet contrast to the big boy.

[Z-Tuba Dude]

Without wanting to sound too tuba-centric...my observations lead me to believe that the one instrument, which has the greatest overall effect on the sound of a brass quintet, is the tuba.

Your choice of instrument is not only a personal choice, but it truly effects everyone in the group. A horn player can select a Conn, Lawson, or an Alex, and that choice will effect the sound of the French horn voice, but the total sound of the group will be remain essentially unchanged. Same is true with different brands of trumpets, and trombones....changing the brand/model of their instrument will effect their personal sound, but the change to the group's sound will be fairy subtle (discounting the possible use of cornets, or flugelhorns).

Conversely, think about the difference of tonal weight between a 24J vs. 186 vs. MW182. The sound of the whole group is dramatically effected by which of those tubas you might select to use. Not having any particular "ax" to grind, just be aware of the effect that your choice will have.

Sure you can play ANY tuba in a brass quintet, but the group will sound different, based on your choice!

[TUbajohn20J]

Seems as though the 24J is the one I'll be using. After playing them both back to back and playing through the pieces we are playing in the quintet, I like the big 24J and its much more complex sound.

Good choice..and I agree 100%. I love my 20J for quintet use.. and so do the listeners.

[J.c. Sherman]

I'm with bloke on this one...

You are not supposed to dominate the group, you're supposed to be a member, one who can blend, move to the back, move to the fore, ride roughshod over, and disappear into. You shouldn't be omni-present, and the whole raison d'etre of the 2XJ tubas is to provide an immense presence at any volume.

The little 103 tubas are an easy blow, blend very well, and - with your hand on the first valve slide, can tune very well. With a more cup-shaped mouthpiece (the stock 67C4 or a Miraphone C4/TU23) you are going to have a lot of control and color. You can bark when you want.

It would be interesting to add a 4th to the little 103, but they are playable in the false range. [The 621 is a different beast - bigger bore, short leadpipe, etc.] But you can do some neat stuff with the 103. Wish I had one - they are nice little dixie horns, and provide a nice little beast for some applications.

In my humble opinion, unless you're in a quintet with a powerful group of orchestra folk, the 186 is overkill. It's fine, but it's more than you need for most chamber groups. I use a 184-CC regularly now, but my "power" group (Heritage Brass Quintet) loves a 4/4 beast at times, especially when we all move to a conical sound. But they really love the 184 for general applications. My other group (Olympic Brass) is a little more nuanced and "chamber-y", and I use smaller weapons there, usually.

That said, it sounds like you play enough to justify picking up your own horn. There are wonderful deals out there if you're patient.

J.c.S.

[sloan]

Oh good. Now I can claim that my new 36J is my "quintet horn".

Just as soon as Joe gets done with it...