Conn Donatelli CC vs. Conn Giant Eb comparison pics

[MartyNeilan]

You asked for 'em, you got 'em
1928 Conn "Donatelli" CC on the left, 1926 Conn Giant Eb on the right.
Piston clusters are virtually identical, except the Donatelli is a .734 while the Giant is a .687 in the same sized casings. Both horns have an approx 20 3/16" bell and are approximately 35" tall. Bells appear identical. Bells are 15" circumference where it meets the bottom bow. Bottom bows also nearly identical; Eb may be slightly narrower at the small side. I believe Conn used the same bells and bottom bows for their Giant Eb's and their Monster BBb's. It is obvious why intonation is a little more challenging on the Giant Eb - the taper is extremely rapid.











Donatelli Disclaimers: This Donatelli most likely does not have the original bell. I received an email from a TubeNetter speculating it is from a top action Conn or Lyon and Healey of similar vingtage. Close inspection of the engraving shows that it was recently cut. Leadpipe on Donatelli may not be original. First valve tuning slide was "flipped." Donatelli was originally a 4 piston horn; rotor from a Mirafone 1292 rotor was fairly recently added. Hotly debated, but Donatelli may have originally been a BBb model. Close inspection of bracing, coupled with large gap between bottom bow and lower branch (vs. LJV's factory CC) lead me to believe this was a VERY good cut job in decades past. Does any of this matter? NO.

Giant disclaimers: Leadpipe is not original, and "pigtail" has been removed. Tuning slide has been added after the valve cluster. First valve tuning slide was "flipped." Recent addition of a second tuning loop in the fourth valve circuit to play low notes in tune. Three mismatched water keys were recently replaced with Amados.

[Rev Rob]

Marty, is it an optical illusion, my imagination or do your valve clusters have a slant to them?

You have a pair of amazing horns. How does the Conn Donatelli play for you? It would be interesting to hear your evaluation of sound, ease of playing or any other tidbits of information you have to offer us as to the sound of the Conn Donatelli.

By the way, why is it called Donatelli by Conn?

[MartyNeilan]

Marty, is it an optical illusion, my imagination or do your valve clusters have a slant to them?

Yes, they do. The slant is identical on both horns. Also noteworthy, the fourth piston sits a little lower in the cluster than the first three

By the way, why is it called Donatelli by Conn?

Probably after this guy:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26093&hilit=philip+donatelli
He is unfortunately most famous for the other horn that was built for him, and for one of his students who got it.

[bisontuba]

Marty-
When I had the horn, the bell diam. was 20.25" across--I wonder if some 'mods' were done to it after it left me...hmmmm....
mark

[Søren]

Beautiful!!

I love tubas in pairs.

[MartyNeilan]

Marty-
When I had the horn, the bell diam. was 20.25" across--I wonder if some 'mods' were done to it after it left me...hmmmm....
mark

I stand corrected on the bell size. I put both horns "bell to bell" and their rims were positively identical. I had mistakenly thought the "Giant" was a 19.5 inch bell. I just grabbed a tape measure from Building Services and confirmed that the Donatelli measures about 20 3/16"
Sorry!

[tubainty]

But do they sound the same? That's the real question.

[MartyNeilan]

But do they sound the same? That's the real question.

Both big, full, fat, and loud. The Donatelli may be a little "darker" due to its considerably greater weight and longer conical bugle; the notes on the Eb speak a little quicker.
The low register on the Eb is a little more "gritty" vs. the "fatter" low register on the CC, again largely due to the difference in bugle and perhaps assisted by the slightly larger bore of the CC.
Intonation is a little easier on the CC; the expansion from valveset to bottom bow happens very rapidly on the Eb.
The two horns are far more similar in playing and sound than they are different.

[Bob Kolada]

My horn played F and low Bb with the same 4th slide setting. Are they really that different on yours?

[MartyNeilan]

My horn played F and low Bb with the same 4th slide setting. Are they really that different on yours?

Yes. Not night-and-day different, but enough to require an alternate fingering or slide pull. Keep in mind that your horn had the stock leadpipe with a tuning loop in the leadpipe; mine is a very different instrument with that alteration with a much more accessible low register.
Also, it is common for those pitches to vary on horns. For example, 6th position F is usually different than 6th position C on a trombone.
My fourth valve loop was just way too short on this horn; Bloke did an incredible job extending it while maintaining the original aesthetics.

[Bob Kolada]

I've always had the same 4th setting on every 4+ valve horn I've played. My bass and .547 trombones need C out a bit, but my contra doesn't (for G). I still find myself playing G out a bit out of habit and being flat.

[MartyNeilan]

I've always had the same 4th setting on every 4+ valve horn I've played. My bass and .547 trombones need C out a bit, but my contra doesn't (for G). I still find myself playing G out a bit out of habit and being flat.

Just depends on the horn. Most rotor F tubas I have played work better FOR ME with G being 13 and C as 4. This horn seems to follow a similar pitch tendency.