Ride of Valkyries question(s)

[Casey Tucker]

Hey all,
So one of my excerpts for my school auditions is The Ride. Just to preface, I have a few (3) recordings and have been studying Jay Friedman's blog on the subject as well as Gene Pokorny's orchestral excerpt CD (I'll have to check back to Mr. Pokorny's CD to double check what he says; it's been about a week). In Mr. Friedman's blog he gives a lot of interesting points regarding the style of the accented notes and the dotted eighth sixteenth eighth pattern. What's confusing me is the tempo. Mr. Friedman sets the tempo at dotted quarter equals 92 but, even though I haven't put a metronome to Mr. Pokorny's recording or the others that I have, it seems to me that the tempo is slower. What's your opinion? Also, what is your opinion of the style of the accented note (and the excerpt for that matter)? I've been playing the longer notes, including the dotted eighth, as a "long-lifted" note; leaving space. Thanks in advance!!

-CT

P.S. I did a brief search and turned up no results. Please feel free to point me in the right direction if I'm misinformed.

[Casey Tucker]

Thanks a bunch guys! I'll give it a try. Anyone else with information feel free to chime in. Thanks again!

-CT

[Alex C]

Also, what is your opinion of the style of the accented note (and the excerpt for that matter)? I've been playing the longer notes, including the dotted eighth, as a "long-lifted" note; leaving space. Thanks in advance!!

-CT

The 'old' CSO low brass used the dotted eighth as a breathing point. Whatever you do, it should be consistent throughout.

Regardless of what the 'right tempo' is, play it clean and rhythmically accurate. 2cents

[UTSAtuba]

Hey Casey,

I'm not sure if you've heard the "Deck Special" recordings, but there is some good stuff in there about playing the Ride. The low brass excerpts aren't too bad either

Joseph

[Casey Tucker]

Hi ya'll,
Joseph (UTSAtuba) I'm not familiar with the "Deck Special" recordings but will look into them. KiltieTuba, unfortunately I haven't listened to or watched the opera but will do so via a quick download. Currently I'm listening to the CSO low brass excerpt CD. Mr. Jacobs is AMAZING. Such great tone and intonation; such a unique sound. Right now this is the style/tempo that I'm gearing towards. I've found that mm. 80-83 suits me best. I feel that I can comfortably play the rhythms at forte (fortissimo where directed) with enough definition and control at this tempo. After listening to a few more recordings (thanks iTunes) keeping the tuba's entrance lower than mm. 92 seems like the best way to go. Thanks for all of the input and keep it coming!!

-CT

[UDELBR]

keeping the tuba's entrance lower than mm. 92 seems like the best way to go.

If a conductor / committee asks for a somewhat unconventional tempo ("Please play that again, but faster"), you have to be prepared to do so.

[PFunkNespy]

keeping the tuba's entrance lower than mm. 92 seems like the best way to go.

If a conductor / committee asks for a somewhat unconventional tempo ("Please play that again, but faster"), you have to be prepared to do so.

I have to really 2nd this point of advice. Obviously, for a college band and orchestra audition, the chances are they'll just listen to you once, so you play the tempo you're most comfortable with. However, in an audition setting, be prepared to play it faster than "your" tempo, as well as slower. At a recent audition, I had a committee ask me to play an except, albeit not this one, slower than my "comfortable" tempo. Thankfully, I had worked it up slower and faster than my ideal tempo and wasn't phased by it (I'd actually argue I played it better slower!). Just keep working at it and focus on producing the best sound you can at all tempos!

[BAtlas]

I used to take this excerpt slower than 92 as well.

In an audition scenario, the faster tempo makes the breathing and phrasing easier, keeping the musical line is easier also. To quote a friend, "I take it at this tempo so it doesn't sound like a death march."

[Casey Tucker]

Hey ya'll,
I originally worked the excerpt up to 92 but thought that it sounded a little fast. I was just wondering what the general consensus was as far as tempo and style was. Thanks again for all the great points and advice. It's greatly appreciated!

-CT

[Kory101]

Hey Joe,
Very nice playing on the Schumann. It was musical, very accurate and your sound was lovely. The highest notes were played with a true tuba sound...not the weasing that one often hears these days. Well done.

Ditto. Sounds fantastic.

[Kory101]

Those who have played this tuba will not contradict me.

And what tuba would that be?

[Kory101]

*whistles*

[MileMarkerZero]

keeping the tuba's entrance lower than mm. 92 seems like the best way to go.

If a conductor / committee asks for a somewhat unconventional tempo ("Please play that again, but faster"), you have to be prepared to do so.

I remember playing in a high school youth orchestra camp years ago under Maestro Adrian Gnam of the Macon Symphony Orchestra. At one time, he was Principal Oboe of the Cleveland Orchestra. He related a story about his audition with George Szell...

The excerpt was the triplet woodwind line from the March of Hindemith's Symphonic Metamorphosis (where the horns take the melody). After playing flawlessly, Szell asked him to play it faster, which he did. Then Szell asked for it even faster. Gnam took a deep breath, and did it again. When he finished, Szell asked him to "play it faster still." After a few more times, Gnam was playing it faster than he thought he could play it. He made it through, albeit not nearly as musically as he'd have liked. But he won the audition.

Some time later, when he was also working with Szell on conducting, he asked the Maestro what had mad ehim ask for the excerpt at such a fast, uncharacteristic tempo. Szell replied "I knew you could play the piece flawlessly. I wanted to see how you handled unexpected pressure."

BTW, I you've never met Maestro Gnam, he is a wonderful conductor. As fun and full of life as any conductor I have worked with, and a top-notch musician.

[TMurphy]

According to this source, Gnam played there from 1964-1966, and was "acting co-principal" from 1965-1966.
http://www.stokowski.org/Cleveland_Orch ... s_List.htm

[MartyNeilan]

Also, what is your opinion of the style of the accented note (and the excerpt for that matter)? I've been playing the longer notes, including the dotted eighth, as a "long-lifted" note; leaving space. Thanks in advance!!

-CT

The 'old' CSO low brass used the dotted eighth as a breathing point. Whatever you do, it should be consistent throughout.

I would be curious as to where more people put the breath in this. I have tried it both between the dotted quarters and after the second dotted quarter, and have even tried taking two smaller breaths after each dotted quarter. Honestly, I am not 100% satisfied with any of those options. I have not tried after the dotted eighth (yet.)
Maybe we should start a poll!

[J.c. Sherman]

He related a story about his audition with George Szell...

...Some time later, when he was also working with Szell on conducting, he asked the Maestro what had mad ehim ask for the excerpt at such a fast, uncharacteristic tempo. Szell replied "I knew you could play the piece flawlessly. I wanted to see how you handled unexpected pressure."

Szell was like that. Ron Bishop likes to recall his audition with Szell. The excerpt was the low lick in 5/8 from Stravinsky's Petrushka (sp?). Szell said "NO!" and made him play thusly - "1 & Tri-pe-let, 1 & Ttripelet (basically 2 eighths and 3 triplet eigths in 2/4)". Bishop knew not to say a WORD and played it exactly as asked for. He won, of course!

J.c.S.

[toobagrowl]

Hey Joe,
Very nice playing on the Schumann. It was musical, very accurate and your sound was lovely. The highest notes were played with a true tuba sound...not the weasing that one often hears these days. Well done.

I agree. I don't like to listen to most F tuba playing because I'm not crazy about the sound most tuba players have on them. But Bloke sounds especially fantastic on the Schumann. Very polished and musical with a nice sound.

Oh yeah.....the "Ride" is strangely hard to play (well).

[J.c. Sherman]

Regarding how to play the Ride... my two cues, what's playing in my head, are the horn rhythm from the opening and the cymbal crashes for the accents.

Who's with me?!

J.c.S