Jaw position

[XtremeEuph]

Hello again. I figured I must be tubenet illiterate seeing I can never find some (what I thought were) common topics within these forums.


ANNNYYWAYY.

Since high school, I have improved substantially in all areas EXCEPT my upper range. I am one of those students who can play an F4 with no problems at all...but any note higher than that seems to need way too much effort to sustain. I have done many range building and flexibility exercises over the years, and also attempt use more air than possible.......still without much improvement. I can definitely reach a high Bb and beyond if I need, but again the effort is way more than I know it should be (I have to pinch the notes out).

It wasn't until yesterday (thanks to the use of mirror), that i realised in my upper register my teeth get closer together. I figured that maybe I'm cutting off too much of my air flow by doing this?? I do not "chew" my notes as I play, so this is just a gradual thing throughout my range (which has been unnoticable until now). Do you guys figure this could be my problem, or is this completely normal? I tried playing whilst keeping my jaw in one spot and only moving my lips closer together but it was rather difficult. I figure that this is because I was trying to break years of habit, or it was something I shouldn't be doing. This is why I have come to ask you guys. I don't want to try something unless I know its something that I SHOULD be fixing.

Thanks again,

Kevin

[tubasinfonianJohn]

if you can't get the notes in the high range then you are doing something wrong, and what you described what you are doing with your teeth is most likes a factor to the problem. The way i learned to play better in the high range is by instead of using your jaw to change the air stream use your tongue. The way to use your tongue to change the air stream is by simply moving it closer to the roof of your mouth this will cause the air to move faster and in turn producing the high notes. you will feel a little more resistance but if you just use proper support then the notes will come. the biggest thing is to just practice practice practice.

Hope this helps it helped me.

[Doug Elliott]

I assume we're talking about euphonium here...

First of all, there are different embouchure types that function quite differently, so what works for somebody else, or even most others, may not be right for you. Along with that, one embouchure type does well with large diameter mouthpieces and another does well with small diameter mouthpieces. So if you are using a large mouthpiece but you are the type that can't successfully play large mouthpieces, you're working against your physical setup and no amount of practice will give you a good high range.

What you mentioned about closing your jaw for high range is likely to be part of the problem, because most likely you also open too much for low range. Players who use opening and closing as the primary way to change ranges usually have problems because they have never learned the "other" combination of things that actually works much better.

Somewhere in your range, your aperture is probably entirely too big, making it impossible to focus it down small enough to have a successful high range. This can be from opening the jaw too much in the low range, or pushing your jaw out for low range which has the same effect; or your mouthpiece is too big (for you) in one way or another; or playing too loud / not doing enough soft practice; or starting your warmup too low in your range or with "too big" of a sound; starting with your lips apart or an otherwise flabby embouchure; or other mechanical issues relating to playing incorrectly for your embouchure type.

In any case, you need to learn to narrow your aperture in order to create the faster vibrations necessary for high range. The method of doing that depends on what you're doing wrong.

[djwesp]

Doug Elliot is the go to guy on stuff like this.

I'm not sure if read it in one of his posts or one of Dave Wilken's, but there has been some conversation about jaw movement on the trombone forums.

Many of the better players over there talk specifically about how we use a lot of unnecessary jaw motion and it inhibits our flexibility and range. I've taken out most of my jaw movement except for in the extreme low range, I've applied my work towards laying off the upper lip pressure on the mouthpiece and relaxing the embouchure more in the low range. Before I was just dropping the jaw tons, which led to less lip being used for the production of the notes.

The effects have been a darker sound, increased flexibility, and less of an elephant sound in the high range. It is amazing the results I've seen in just a matter of months. Probably one of the biggest, most drastic changes it had, was in my overall tuning of the instrument. My low range has been notoriously sharp for years and it has been something I have worked for some time. Now, it has started to come down and even out over the range of the entire horn.

Darker sound, better tuning, better flexibility. I'm sold on it.

[Roger Fjeldet]

When changing embochure you should absolutely take lessons with a teacher who knows these kinds of problems.
To increase air speed for playing in the upper register, try playing on a smaller mouthpiece: trombone or even trumpet just to get the idea. "Close" lips instead of teeth.
But once again; Visit a teacher
Roger

[Amilcare]

Check with a dentist. You might need wisdom teeth removed. If your mouth is too small for all those teeth, it can prevent proper position.

Also, develop your really low register. It will help both enf\ds.

[Roger Lewis]

This topic has been brought up before and this helped a few people:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4051&p=29149&hilit= ... nge#p29149" target="_blank

But I would also recommend that you find a GOOD teacher.

Roger

[windshieldbug]

I was taught by Irv Cohen who was taught by Bill Bell...

The jaw motion you want is forward and back, not up and down.
High = downstream, low = upstream.

It made HUGE differences in my playing, but that was my playing.
FOR GOD'S SAKE, find a teacher who can give you some objective feedback, don't flail about on your own!