Mouthpiece Change

[acjcf2]

My first post here so I'll give some background.

I returned to tuba play back in February after a 38 year layoff. I last played my junior year in high school (1973). I really caught the bug during the 2010 advent season in church when our brass ensemble played (sans a tuba). I told the wife; "this group needs a tuba, and if I could get my hands on one I like to give it a shot and see if I can still play." I asked around and two months later the pastor says; "go back in the admin, wing and see." A brass member obtained a used Jupiter 378 BBb tuba in good shape. It's around 1989 vintage. I took it home went to Savannah, GA and obtained a MP (the guy sold me a 24AW) and the Rubanks Intermediate book. Just like riding a bike, one you learn you never forget).

I found during practice that I couldn't keep up with the air. I was on the other sight and put feeler out for a different mouth piece, The bore was too much and I couldn't keep with the air. I was given several options and settled on a Miraphone TU21. Wow, a difference. The wider rim, 32.10mm and 8mm bore really helped with breathing.

I played during Easter and received a lot compliments and many were surprised.

Now that I getting my skills and chops back in shape, I a gain am having problems with the higher notes. I can range from peddle F to high F every day. Peddle Eb most days, uper G on most days, and beyond that is "as the spirit moves." Upper Bb is about it, middle C is a no go.

Question, should I purchase a mp with an even small bore such as a TU-23 (32.50mm rim/7.5mm bore) or go with a mp with a even wider rim, i.e. a 32.50mm or even a 33.00 mm rim with a 8 mm bore?

Sorry for the rant but I felt some background is needed for guidance. I'm having a blast playing again.

This is a great sight.

Cheers,
Jim

[Michael Bush]

Sounds to me like you're set. Are you really playing repertoire in church that demands a wider range than that? If you like the way the Miraphone sounds and the way it feels on your face and fits in the horn, why change?

Also, here is a most useful post by Roger Lewis about how to play high notes by rolling in your bottom lip rather than squeezing harder and tighter:

viewtopic.php?p=29184#p29184" target="_blank

Welcome back!

[acjcf2]

Thanks talleyrand. For the most part yes. The 24AW really made my mouth/lips feel crowded with the 31.25mm rim.

I find even with the TU-21 that my mouth feels crowded after playing higher notes, my upper lips starts to get fat.

I do find myself pulling the horn into my face and I try to combat that habit and relax.

Most pieces don't go much higher than a high D. There is a Bach fugue that does go up to a upper G and even I believe an A of Bb. Maybe more practice is needed.

I'll do a search. Meanwhile, I'm all "ears" for advice.

Thanks,
Jim

[SplatterTone]

With the caveat that everyone is different, I find that a rim with a non-rounded inner edge make high notes work better for me, for example PT36, PT44. For me, a cushy, rounded inner edge makes high notes completely unreliable.

To do high notes consistently requires practicing them a lot. As one who does church playing, I have to agree with a previous post that appeared (to me) to question the practical value of doing that. It's very rare for even grade 5 stuff doesn't get into the extreme range you mentioned.

This might sound overly pragmatic to the point of being anti-artistic, but 99.9 percent of church playing is to either add fat body to the ensemble, or be sweet and mellow. With limited time to practice (I'm still a working boy), I practice for the 99.9 percent, and on those rare times when the 0.01 percent shows up, there is always the option of playing it down an octave.

[peter birch]

here's the sad truth that you probably already know, and it's in your first sentence.. "a 38 year layoff" to all intents and purposes your are a beginner again, and range and technique and breath control come with sustained practice, not a new mouthpiece.
you may just have to accept that the time has gone, and that you must play within the limitations of your body now and leave the high stuff to the kids, get your mid range sounding lovely, play the tuba as though you are singing with the congregation and remember that in Church, as nice as it is to get compliments, you are playing to the glory of God, not to the tuba player

[opus37]

Your story is almost the same as mine. (Away from the horn of many years and then filling the need in church). However I happened to have had an old Martin Eb. I ended up with a Bloke piece Imperial with the 1A rim. That seemed to work best for me. That has a 32.3 rim. The range needed for my church quintet is similar to yours. My problem was the low range. The one thing I started doing was taking lessons. It has been 42 years since my last lesson, so it is a bit intimidating. The first thing I had to work on was breathing and breath support. The next is articulation. So, rather than change your mouthpiece, I suggest a few lessons. My church group director is giving the lessons for a very reasonable price. You might ask your director if he/she will do the same. I think you will get more out of some lessons than a new mouthpiece.

[Rev Rob]

I picked up the tuba again after a 40 year hiatus. For me it was not quite like riding a bike. Even when I started riding the bike I had in 5th grade, it was not exactly like riding a bike again. I also am working on my high range. For me, the battle is articulation - getting my mind dialed in on the note or phrase and getting it tacked down solid. This takes practice, and a lot of it for me. I currently am using bloke pieces - both the Symphony and Solo, with the Imperial on order. I am going with wider rims with some rounding just to save my chops over 2 hour rehearsal sessions or practice sessions.

I agree with one of the previous posts when they commented on working on your sound. Let the tuba sing. Gloria In Excelsis Deo.

[acjcf2]

Thanks to all for your input. Mr. Birch you are so correct, taht 38 years is lost time and I'm not a high school kid any more. Muscle tone is not the same, lung capacity reduced, et al. I have worked hard in a short period to get my low and mid range to sound lovely within the limits of myself and the instrument. I shoot for 3 to 4 hours of practice a week.

I also am struggling with breathing and breath support, articulation and building speed. I marvel at the professionals who can run 1/16 and 1/32 notes with acuraccy and musicallity. Teutonic Tails is one such example.

SplatterTone, you are on the mark, the tuba adds foundation and substance to the group.

Opus, I am in search of a lesson or two. As a former Marine, I might just approach the Parris Island Marine Band director about networking with the band's tuba players when thier schedule winds down.

Again, thanks to all, I'm sure I'll have more questions on our instrument of choice.

Jim

[bort]

Especially if you're just restarting, pick something now and stick with it for a while. If you keep changing mouthpieces, it's really a moving target. I'd suggest something like a Conn Helleberg or Bach 18...though I'm not sure what's "ideal" for your tuba, these are tried and true "standard" mouthpieces that shouldn't hold you back. I wouldn't be so concerned with measurements, bore sizes, etc. just yet (if ever). Play by sound, not by feel.

[acjcf2]

Thanks again folks, I believe I'll stick with the TU-21 and master what I have. It's comfortable and it improved the voice of the old Jupiter. I do need to work on the basics and not think I can play like I did in high school.

The moving target analogy is most likely right on the money. The chap that scored the tuba for me has a collection of at least a 1/2 doz. trumpet mouth pieces. He is always changing mp's with little or no change.

Collectiong tuba mouth pieces can be an expensive hobby unless there is a genuine need.

I appreciate y'alls candor.

Jim

[SplatterTone]

The chap that scored the tuba for me has a collection of at least a 1/2 doz.

Piker. If you don't have at least 30, you're just not trying. This goes beyond music to the universal truth that whoever dies with the most mouthpieces wins.

By the way, I still don't have a PT83
... yet.

[Tubaryan12]

acjcf2,

Good to see you made it over here.

I think you made a wise choice to hold where you are for now. If you like the way a mouthpiece feels on the face, practice will take care of most everything else. I'm finally satisfied with my mouthpiece choice and feel on my face had more to do with it than anything else.

[peter birch]

one other comment about playing the tuba, it is a big physical effort, it requires a degree of fitness to do it, and when returning to it in middle age, you probably need to undertake some sort of assessment of your general health, including I would suggest your dental status and particularly your weight, and if you smoke now is the time to quit. for myself, i feel comfortable and play well at around 195lbs, if I put on 5lbs, I can feel it in my breathing, breathing exercises will help, and increasing your all-round fitness will help and it becomes circular - playing the tuba will improve your health and improved health will improve your tuba playing
please note, these are general remarks and not meant as personal comments.

[acjcf2]

Thanks Ryan. It took a while to post, I was little intimidated at first, there are a lot of long time players and professionals here and so much information.

I've absorbing information like a sponge here.

Yes Peter, you are correct in fitness. I need to get back into my walking and so forth. I did quit smoking six months before returning to play. Being a cigar man, inhaling was not a wise thing. No offense taken.

Jim