Real musicians only join orchestras!

[WoodSheddin]

As to your point about most musicians in the premiere bands having advanced college degrees in support of their activity, and that such college training would get them a commission in most other military occupations, I agree. But they probably would not get paid that much more.

Rick "knowing experienced officers who drool at the thought of an E-9 salary" Denney

That is generally possible and true between junior Warrant Officers pay and E-6+ pay. But Commissioned Officers make a LOT more. My Captain probably makes $80,000+/year and has been in maybe 1 year longer than I have. Commissioned Officers make good money.

[Rick Denney]

...My Captain probably makes $80,000+/year and has been in maybe 1 year longer than I have. Commissioned Officers make good money.

See where he is 20 years from now when he's a Lt. Col., and making more--but not as much more by percentage--than the E-9s in his command. They start out better, but experience pays more than education after a surprisingly few years--and that's true in the private sector as well.

Consider also that pay in the private sector is not associated with eduction after the first few years, but rather with the stress of the responsibilities people face in their jobs. Your work in the computer world isn't that representative. After all, you might have been laid off during the bust.

Rick "who had just this chat with a recently retired Marine LTC last week" Denney

[WoodSheddin]

...My Captain probably makes $80,000+/year and has been in maybe 1 year longer than I have. Commissioned Officers make good money.

See where he is 20 years from now when he's a Lt. Col., and making more--but not as much more by percentage--than the E-9s in his command. They start out better, but experience pays more than education after a surprisingly few years--and that's true in the private sector as well.

LTC makes about $112,000+ at that point and a full COL, like our commander, makes about $132,000 if he lives off post. The commanders of Pershing's Own have been living on post as far as I can tell so he makes "only" $102,000+/year + free housing.

PS
Not entirelly relavent but retiring generals of all flavors 0-7 to 0-10 retire with 100% of their base salaries as opposed to everyone else's 50%-75%. So someone like Colin Powell is making $165,000/year in retirement pay plus whatever else he is earning in the civilian world. That's some goooooooooooooood money there.

[FarahShazam]

Why do you think so many military musicians do 30 years before they are finally kicked out? Because it is nearly impossible to find that nice a gig anywhere else.

I am going to try to stay in for 30years because I LOVE my job. I like the people and I am raising my son who I have plenty of free time to play with. I also cannot stress how amazing the medical benefits are offered. I mean completely amazing. Sampson needed a procedure done and was originally going to be sent to DC childrens' hospital. His doctor felt that wasn't the best place, he himself CALLED the top surgeon at the Philly Childrens' hospital who agreed to do the procedure.

Some of our travel expenses were paid as well. His doctor also called around to some researchers especially for Sampson. Good guy, great doctor, and this was completely covered by our medical insurance.

I am forever indebited to the military and will give it my all as long as I am able.

Off the top of my head, I cannot think of a single person that had a gig in a military band and left the service early to find their fortunes elsewhere.

OMG, there have been 5 or 6 in my band alone who left to get better gigs or teaching positions in the past 4 years.

[FarahShazam]

Hold on there Skippy, I'll give a rundown of some of the composers and pieces I played yesterday in a military band concert:

Prokofiev - Love of Three Oranges
Ives - it's all the same
Hartley - Concerto for 23 Winds
Barber - Symphony Numero Uno
Respighi - a little piece we know as "Fountains"

Hmmmm..... not pop music, unless by pop you mean "POPular with tuba players". If so you are correct, sir.

Cameron "more pop music" Gates

Hey, now, don't GLOAT!

[Cameron Gates]

Hold on there Skippy, I'll give a rundown of some of the composers and pieces I played yesterday in a military band concert:

Prokofiev - Love of Three Oranges
Ives - it's all the same
Hartley - Concerto for 23 Winds
Barber - Symphony Numero Uno
Respighi - a little piece we know as "Fountains"

Hmmmm..... not pop music, unless by pop you mean "POPular with tuba players". If so you are correct, sir.

Cameron "more pop music" Gates

Hey, now, don't GLOAT!

Not gloating at all. I was just pointing out that it is not true that military bands only play pop music. I have been to many military band concerts, both in DC and other places, and have always come away impressed with the playing and music selection. While I was in high school a local (McCord AFB) military jazz ensemble would come to our band contest every year and blow us away. They played great stuff and sold the product. I thought then, and believe now, that doing what they do is one great way to make a living as a musician. I would rather have a stable job playing for families of departed servicmen than a job playing for a 1/2 empty hall occupied by the same people every week. Oh, by the way, those patrons are dying off.......what then?

Sean started a great topic. I felt the same way when my son was born at Ft. Belvoir, VA. He had a rough start his first few months but was tended to by the military doctors very well. His birth cost me nothing, his care cost me nothing. That's the type of thing that makes my dreams of playing bass trombone with Maynard Ferguson, playing tuba in a full-time 100-piece monster orchestra, and growing my hair back seem not so urgent.

Cameron Gates

[Rick Denney]

LTC makes about $112,000+ at that point and a full COL, like our commander, makes about $132,000 if he lives off post...

...Not entirelly relavent but retiring generals of all flavors 0-7 to 0-10 retire with 100% of their base salaries as opposed to everyone else's 50%-75%. So someone like Colin Powell is making $165,000/year in retirement pay plus whatever else he is earning in the civilian world. That's some goooooooooooooood money there.

Yes, but who would want his job? For sure not me. My stress formula applies there big-time. I figure he's earned that retirement by working an extra 20 years worth of work in the ten years he's been Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and Secretary of State.

When Eisenhower left the presidency, a collection was take to provide him with a retiremement home, because he was the first president to have spent his entire career in public service without inheriting a fortune. It's just up the road near Gettysburg. It sounds like things have changed a little since then, heh, heh.

Your LTC's and birds make the point, though. In your first post, you said that E-9's were in the six-figure range. So, your off-base LTC is only 12% (at most) higher with the same experience. Bird colonel is even more elusive than E-9--I think there's only one full colonel in TUSAB but there are several E-9's.

And in Washington, a full colonel is likely one of a bevy of some general's staff assistants, so that stars are even more rare. And even the stars have their own rankings. I'm a friend of a friend of Charlie Bond, who is a retired Air Force Lt. General, and he worried as much about that last star as he did about getting a regular commission following his service with Hap Arnold (which followed his stint in the Flying Tigers). He was a base commander of a big base (Bergstrom AFB in Austin when it was SAC base) when he retired, and I can tell you he retired quite modestly compared to folks in the private sector who might have endured such stress and responsibility.

Rick "agreeing with Henry that money is only a small part of the motivation to work at any job" Denney