Czech Dechovky / Brass Bands

[rookieTubist81]

I've been listening to many Czech folk brass band ensembles like Veselka, Moravanka, Vejvoboda, Mistrinanka and the like.

That Czech folk Brass band tuba sound especially in the lower register is very aggressive...not sure if I can call it loud, but it is edgy or "crunchy",percussive - almost explosive, but focused in tone.

I hear this sound in the German Blaskapelles too, but the Czech Dechovky Tuba players seem to feature it more.


Is there are term for this tone quality? How is this achieved (horn and mouthpiece) - is this the Kaisertuba sound? Could it also be the way the horn is mic'ed or the mix-down in post production?

[Ace]

Is this the sort of thing you are talking about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wicdEZG1ykY" target="_blank

Ace

[rookieTubist81]

More like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYjXB6Fu ... re=related" target="_blank

[David Richoux]

If you want crunchy and aggressive - follow the German/Czech tradition to Mexico!

[jonesbrass]

Having both heard and played in these type of bands in Europe, I believe it is mostly about style. This is the sound they are after, very short, all tone, and precisely on the "takt." You would see these players on a variety of instruments, but basically any rotary BBb and/or rotary F (playing an octave up from the BBb). That's just how they do it.

[Wu299]

This "crunchy" sound is caused by playing very short notes aloud. We (at least I do) wish we could make more beautiful sound, but with this lenght its almost impossible.
This music is played almost exclusively on BBbs, though now there are big F tubas coming back again. Though imo, BBb is the best for this.

Whats it like for Americans to hear czech music, Im wondering?

[Chuck Jackson]

Whats it like for Americans to hear czech music, Im wondering?

Like I'm young again. While he was alive, my father had a very fine band that specialized in Polish music (notice I didn't say a Polka Band). My cousin Rick played tuba with them. It takes me back to all the functions I used to go to at various Polish venues. Music of Eastern Europe was all over my neighborhood, Czech, Polish, Klezmer, German. It is wonderful music that never ceases to put a smile on my face.

Chuck"Proustian Fugue State Indeed"Jackson

[bort]

Whats it like for Americans to hear czech music, Im wondering?

It makes me want to go get some sausages and Straopramen.

[Donn]

This "crunchy" sound is caused by playing very short notes aloud. We (at least I do) wish we could make more beautiful sound, but with this lenght its almost impossible.
This music is played almost exclusively on BBbs, though now there are big F tubas coming back again. Though imo, BBb is the best for this.

Whats it like for Americans to hear czech music, Im wondering?

Actually sounds very `mainstream' to me. After reading your comments, I was expect to hear something like the playing I'm used to hearing from Eastern Europe. (Orkestar Dragana Ijnica, with the great Sasa Alisanovic on bass tuba.)

The tuba in the Veselka recording linked above sounds great to me. No complaint whatever about tone. Indeed I wish I heard more of this kind of tone from tuba players. It's easy to hear, it does the job, but it doesn't bury the other instruments. People do not come to hear the tuba sing beautiful melodies.

[bort]

I agree... my thought when hearing this is that the tuba is clean, clear, and on-time. It's harsh when it's meant to be, but otherwise just very direct. It makes me think that there are a TON of US tuba players who can't play anywhere near this cleanly (but I bet they could play louder )

[Steve Marcus]

Whats it like for Americans to hear czech music, Im wondering?

I enjoy the basic supportive role of the tuba in this music as a listener and even more as a player.

My impression is that the tuba players are not just ON the beat; in some cases they push the momentum forward by playing ever so slightly AHEAD of the beat.

[Wu299]

Actually sounds very `mainstream' to me. After reading your comments, I was expect to hear something like the playing I'm used to hearing from Eastern Europe. (Orkestar Dragana Ijnica, with the great Sasa Alisanovic on bass tuba.).

No, thats different region, further to east.

Typical in my region would be Moravanka, perhaps. 50km south from where I am it would be Kumpanovi muzikanti with leader Vlado Kumpan.

Many tuba players go into it too aggressively, with little tone quality. I hate that sound, but sometimes one cant avoid it, as everything in polkas calls for short notes (especially in tuba part) and short notes being played as loud as possible rarely result in a nice tone, at least for me.
And yes, tuba should push it a little bit forward, but again its depends on region a lot.

Talking about this I will dare to go offtopic - if there was a school orchestra playing such music, is there any chance it would be invited into US (well not invited, but lets say part of the expenses would be financed)? Just to show something different to Americans and to see something new ourselves.

[David Richoux]

No, thats different region, further to east.

Typical in my region would be Moravanka, perhaps. 50km south from where I am it would be Kumpanovi muzikanti with leader Vlado Kumpan.

snip

I found a lot of Youtuba recordings for that group - very nice! I did not see any mics on or above the stage for this one - very clean sounding and wondering if it was a studio recording re-set?
Also, I would find it very difficult to be spread out like the way they are positioned - too easy to get the sections out of synch...

[rookieTubist81]

Whats it like for Americans to hear czech music, Im wondering?

The brass band arrangements and compositions tend to be very melodic, which is nice, - ironically, the Tuba in these bands rarely get melodic writing unless it's a featured solo!

I don't mind the aggressive sound of the tuba either - but I prefer a clean refined sound.
I think a lot of it has to do with the way the horns are mic'ed and mixed down. The Tuba in some of the recordings sound really "raspy" or "fuzzy". The Veselka tuba player sounds really clear, focused and basey - even percussive at times.

Also I think the bass/kick drum adds to the weight of the baseline as well?

[Wu299]

I found a lot of Youtuba recordings for that group - very nice! I did not see any mics on or above the stage for this one - very clean sounding and wondering if it was a studio recording re-set?
Also, I would find it very difficult to be spread out like the way they are positioned - too easy to get the sections out of synch...

That is Vlado Kumpan and Kumpanovi muzikanti, probably the best band in country. This doesnt seem like it is live playing, more like "lip-sync". Though I heard that Vlado wanted a band to be able to play anywhere without mics - not sure if he managed to.
It is a band from southern Moravia - they like to accent weak beats, you can hear that easily. People are different at southern Moravia than in mid - its mostly because at south they grow a lot of wine, and in general people are somewhat happier there - they play everything pretty fast.
Mid Moravia is historically very rich, because its easy to grow pretty much anything there - which caused people to be fat - which caused music to be slower.
In Bohemia, there is pretty much only beer - they play slowly and the music isnt as nice as our at Moravia, at least for me. Also texts are usually stupid. Listen to Veselka - its slower than Kumpan.

Even the best brass players in this country often play in such bands - orchestral jobs are paid that poor. Ive seen the same soloist play trombone solo with symphonic orchestra and the day after I saw a video of him playing tenorhorn with Blaskapelle Gloria (notice its name is german - in my country people dont like this music anymore - perhaps because it was played badly in past decades. Nobody wants to listen to 6 old guys barely able to hold their instruments playing out of tune and ... well thats how it was). Im glad that there is at least some tradition left and everything isnt the same.

I dont think I have ever seen or heard tuba play any melodic part. If the tubist wants to play something more, he usually puts sixteenth notes there (thought they are rarely written).
Bass drum almost always plays with tubist on beat.