To continue the deleted Union thread

[eupher61]

OK, let me axe a question and really reveal my ignorance. I'm not a member of the local local, and my band gigs rarely pull union scale. Even the most established professional players, I'm guessing, occasionally do a gig for little or no money for one reason or another. The classic trade unions are pretty rigorous about such things, but I assume a musician's union must be considerable more flexible - how do they approach this question? Is it OK to take a gig for whatever rate is acceptable to you, or is that undercutting the union scale?

As an active member, the answer is Yes. Yes, it undercuts Scale to work for less. Yes, many do take gigs for less than scale. Is it something the AF of M wants happening? Obviously, no.
But it certainly happens.
It also undercuts any chance of making more on that gig in the future. The perceived value of a service or item is that price which is paid for that service or item. What if Little Caeser's were to suddenly start charging the same price as your local mom and pop pizza joint? Complaints, right? Frankly, the product LC's puts out is far from horrible, and with a change in cheese it would be quite close to mom and pop quality. No matter what, though, it is seen as cheapa$$ pizza, for good reason. They, and PH and Domino's and PJ in response, got themselves into a bind.

Same with a band that charges $100 for 5 players for 3 hours. Go back to the same place, say "We need $500 this time" and you'll be laughed out.

I've found 2 scenarios on casual gigs, whether or not a Local contract is submitted: they pay either well under Scale or well over Scale. The advantage of filing a contract, again, is protection in case something happens and the buyer doesn't want to pay, or some other legal crap.

I'm fortunate that my current local has CBAs with many churches, schools, arts companies, and sports teams among other things. I'm not likely to be playing in the local major orchestra, but the opera, baseball, and church gigs come with confidence that I will make $XX per service, overtime if required, and I will get paid. The local I previously belonged to has very few CBAs at all, and relatively few members see any benefit from them.

Does the Local want me, or anyone, playing for less than scale? No, certainly not. But I do if the situation makes sense. I know I can get any number of 1 hour nursing home jobs for $50, a price which has come around because of a couple of musicians who decided to undercut scale some years back. Now, some of those nursing homes are trying to start paying $35 a person. That is unconscienable to me. Unfortunately, those aren't the most discerning of audiences, so they will be happy to have 3rd graders come in and yell songs, or a sax player with BITB who is happy to make $35. You get paid what you deserve, in my experience, and in many situations.

[Donn]

Same with a band that charges $100 for 5 players for 3 hours. Go back to the same place, say "We need $500 this time" and you'll be laughed out.

Well, maybe. I could imagine hypothetical scenarios where that could work - "last time we filled the place", or even just "we decided gigs at least have to pay for gas." At that point, the venue has to decide whether they're going to let you go or pay your price.

But - as with your nursing home example - as long as they think you'll work for $100, that's going to work against any other band that wants $500. Some of us don't really need $40 or whatever the split comes out to, but the best and most dedicated among the people I've played with are often living at a correspondingly margin economic level - day jobs off and on, maybe slender health insurance, etc. In my view, when you're part of a scene that pays a little money, the quality of musicians drawn to it improves radically and it's a whole lot more fun - and that applies even if they aren't in your own band. So I would hope that people are careful about giving it away, because that can really drain the potential.

[Donn]

Maybe. It would be interesting to see the books. One of my bandmates' stock response is "place like this pays more for light bulbs." Musicians would rather play than not play, so they're just about as easy as a jukebox.

[Mark]

We have a hard set minimum now, but if the worthy charitable event comes along, I don't mind playing for less, but it better be WORTHY. (this coming from the person that packs and moves all the sound equipment)

Our policy for charity events is that we will play for free if the other services (e.g. catering, MC) are also waiving their fees.

[eupher61]

We have a hard set minimum now, but if the worthy charitable event comes along, I don't mind playing for less, but it better be WORTHY. (this coming from the person that packs and moves all the sound equipment)

Our policy for charity events is that we will play for free if the other services (e.g. catering, MC) are also waiving their fees.

Yep. Perfect.

You've seen the spoof Craigslist ads where the restaurant says they'd like to have musicians play for free just to help promote their business (*and EXPERIENCE), and a musician responds saying s/he would like to have a restaurant come cook at their house to promote their music? If only.

[swillafew]

Union membership looks very different from the outside and the inside. I was a member of the AFM, the NEA, and NATCA (National Air Traffic Controllers Association). it was unexpected for an academic, ivory tower, over-educated liberal arts type. I was happy with my compensation.