Advice for buying a Euphoniumfrom my stand point PLEASE READ

[Rick Denney]

I am in high school...

To me, this is the most important thing you said. I think that at this stage, all but the 2950 are good choices for you. All will retain their value if you take care of them. If you develop to a level that might be successful professionally, you will surely have a different view of what you want then compared with now. You'll be able to sell this one and get what you want, with very little loss, assuming you want something different. Therefore, buying a good, used euphonium now is a very good choice.

If you don't go pro, any of the above would be instruments most amateurs would feel blessed to be able to own. Thank your parents and work hard to justify their generosity.

The reason I don't favor the 2950 is that I think it's pretty big and reports suggest to me it's rather hard work for the range of euphonium playing by those not at the highest levels. The 2900 is less intimidating and perhaps a bit less tuba-like. The Yamaha and the Besson are more like the 2900 than the 2950. All three of those are excellent instruments and would not hold you back for a long time. I might personally tend to the smaller Willson, for no particular reason.

Rick "who thinks one doesn't have to be a euph pro to answer this question reasonably" Denney

[elimia]

Scott,

One thing you've got to keep in mind is that these are quality musical instruments, not cheap Korean off-brand guitars or something. They are going to hold their value and therefore you won't find too many steals out there. For these instruments, you are going to have to shell out serious cash. There aren't many to be found on the market used, and you're going to have to pay what the sellers are asking.

Those are all fine horns you've listed. Those Wilson horns are the absolute top of the line in worldwide quality. If you want my opinion, I would have to agree with Rick. I think they are over your head at this point. You are still growing as a player and still growing as a young man, these are probably beyond you to some degree. Those types of horns are played by orchestral-quality musicians usually. I would be lost on them personally and I've been playing for 10 years (but w/out lessons with a teacher consistently, see below).

Remember, get what's best for you, not what you think you have to have because you see other people in high school playing them. Just because you get a top of the world horn doesn't mean you are going to suddenly turn into a top of the world player. While having a decent instrument helps, ultimately, you are the base of the sound. Focus more on learning as much as you can to develop as a musician. In my opinion, that is worth more than the extra money you'll spend on those expensive horns.

I would rather see a young musician stick on a Yamaha 321 (which is a fine horn) and spend the $2,500 in lessons over a few years rather than you have the super horn and not know how to develop yourself as a musician. Even with the Wilson, there is only so far you can go without professional instruction.

If your goal is to become a real quality musician, look into getting with a good tuba/euphonium teacher. If you have any aspirations to make it as a professional musician, you are going to be competing with kids that have been taking lessons since they've been 8-10 years old in some cases. You are going to see those kids playing at the real high levels because they got the instruction and stuck with it. Yes, they may also have top shelf horns BUT they have a fundamental understanding of what to do with them.

Spend the money on lessons and the gas money it takes to get to lessons. That will be a better investment for you in long term.

Ryan

[Rick Denney]

I think that only a trained, quality professional euphonium/tuba player could make a recommendation on what you need in a new horn, particularly a compensating model.

Andy, I'm not with you on this one. With the exception of the Willson 2950, all the instruments he mentioned are good workhorse euphoniums that will provide a high level of competence that would be usable by anyone. I don't think any of the three present any unusual challenges to a young player, such as one might experience with, say, a classic Alexander tuba that required considerable "intonation management".

Nor to I think the instruments are necessarily above this player, if he's playing at the all-state level. If he's going to stick with euphonium, he might as well make the switch to 3+1 sooner rather than later.

If he was talking a brand new $4-5000 Prestige, Hirsbrunner, 842, or Willson, then I would suggesting that he back off a bit. But he's already done that. The instruments he's considering will hold their value, and even if he ultimately chooses a different instrument, what he learned on any of these three would help him make that choice, and he'd be able to get his money back out of it. Thus, in the long run he'd have free use of an excellent euphonium. If he goes another route and keeps this instrument for playing in community band, he will have all the instrument he needs with any of these choices. Or, once again, he'll have trade fodder worth as much as he paid.

I see this as a no-lose deal, with the only warning that the 2950 might be a bit too much horn for someone still in high school.

If it came to a choice between a school-owned 321 and proper lessons, then I would counsel the lessons. I had neither when I was in high school. But that doesn't seem to be the choice. And for the difference between his $4000 budget and a $2250 used instrument, he could pay for a lot of lessons.

Rick "who thinks EuphoniumDude has already exercised reasonable restraint" Denney

[hydeuphonium]

I played a 321 for 3 1/2 years in high school, played a 642 the last semester in high school.. made 1st chair all state in texas with a 642.. and was able to make principal in the wind ensemble in college with it..

the 642 is the best bet in my opinion, its in your price range. and i bet you could find a NEW 642 for under 4000 as opposed to buying and risking USED horns... but its your call..

you'd probably do fine throughout college with a 642, but remember you can always take out "education loans" and get the instrument of your choice later on...

good luck.

[Bob Mosso]

How about a Willson 2704? It can be had for less than budget, brand spanking new! (approx $3500) It's non-comp and 4 in-line so no new fingerings to learn.

[Louis]

If I'm reading the scenario right, you have an opportunity to get a 7-year-old Willson 2900 in good shape for around $2,500... That's what I would do in your shoes. Reason: If you take care of it and decide to step up to something new in a few years (after H.S. maybe - I'm making the assumption that as a H.S. student you're in the "up-and-coming" stage of your euphonium experience), you'll probably be able to get most or even all of that $2,500 back in the resale - they are popular horns.

Louis

[TexTuba]

[elimia]

If you're already taking lessons - excellent! You didn't mention that the money you had didn't include lessons. Lessons need to complement buying the better horn.

My recommendation for a good starting 3+1, in that price range, is either a Yamaha 641 or 642. I'm partial to Yamahas but they are highly consistent in terms of intonation and have a nice sound. They respond well, are solid made horns and hold their resale value well. I just bought a 10 year old 641 and am very pleased with it. There is a used 641 for sale for a good price in the For Sale section. If you have to buy a horn w/out trying it first, a Yamaha is a good choice. And for a young musician still growing, I don't think this horn will be more than you could handle. A good fit IMO.

Ryan "who really likes it when Rick Denney does this" E.

[Chuck(G)]

Get a bell-front Reynolds. It works for this guy:

[Louis]

Get a bell-front Reynolds. It works for this guy:

That looks like a King 2266. I think the Contempora bells were detachable. The trombone is King anyway...

Awesome beard & glasses combo - very Civil-War-reenactor-looking.

' step up to...what?

Good point...

Louis

[Rick Denney]

...The only way I can think of is to have them ship the horn (if far away), while the buyer pays shipping to look at/ try out horn to make sure its alright...

That's the way stores do it, but they have the wherewithall to take that sort of risk. I don't think it's fair to ask an individual seller to ship you an instrument on "approval". Even the stores will require you to pay for the instrument up front, even if they do allow you to return it (less shipping charges, of course).

The better way is to find out where the seller is located, and have someone who lives nearby go look at it for you. (That someone could possibly be found on Tubenet.)

But if the price is reasonable, and you think you could turn it around for that price, then I think you can just buy it. If it turns out to be not your cup of tea, you can sell it as easily as the guy you buy it from.

I've bought a number of instruments solely on the recommendation of the seller, and I've sold or traded off several of them when I decided I wanted something different. Out of something like about $7000 in total, I'm about $300 ahead. It's pretty good when people pay me $300 for extended trials of their instruments, heh, heh.

Ask for a picture. If the instrument looks good, it probably is, though the pics will never show the small dings and scratches that most horns collect if they are actually used. If what you get is clearly not the same as in the picture, you have legal recourse. There's not much chance of it coming to that, in my opinion. Like everything in life, sometimes you just have to talk to the seller and listen hard for the vibes; sort of a long-distance version of looking him in the eye.

And, for the record, the Willson would be my choice over the Yamaha and the Besson, just in terms of resale value if nothing else. And I own a Besson (such as it is).

Rick "who thinks it less risky to pay a fair price for a top-line instrument than it is to get a not-so-top-line instrument for a steal" Denney