How useful are giant sousaphones

[Steve Marcus]

I have enjoyed playing my Conn 48K Jumbo in Dixieland bands, polka bands, and other "ethnic" bands. Every group has liked the deep, organ-like (as Dan described it) sound of the horn. I'm careful about balance with the other musicians, particularly if there are a smaller quantity of musicians in the group. As indicated in a thread from a couple of weeks ago, the Jumbo may go unmiked while the other musicians are using mics. As Kiltie mentioned, it seems a bit less fatiguing to play standing, and breath support is easier. OTOH, if the whole group is sitting, I'll do so with the Jumbo as well.

I've even been foolish enough to keep the 48K on my shoulder for "strolling" gigs. Conn seems to have paid more attention to ergonomics (a word that may not have even existed when my Jumbo was built in 1930). The distribution of weight is balanced due to the non-symmetrical placement of the inner bow in relation to the outer now. The shoulder plate is also well placed and does relieve what would be a concentration of 52 pounds on one point of the shoulder.

In most applications, I play the Jumbo with a mouthpiece that had a medium-deep cup. But when I know that might be asked to take a chorus in a Dixieland group (which occurs on most Dixoeland gigs), I'll use a more shallow cup such as a Laskey 30C.

[Lee Stofer]

If you have one and you need one, a giant sousaphone is very useful. I have owned two of them personally, both Conn 46K's. I now own a 1958-vintage Conn 20K, which is plenty big for normal use. I feel that the efficiency factor of BBb sousaphones is often inversely proportional to the size, as the King and Reynolds sousaphones, which had amongst the smallest bore sizes, were some of the most efficient, and some of the very largest instruments are tremendous "air hogs", although some of that perception may come with their condition. The 48K that Steve Marcus owns is really quite responsive for what it is, and Andy Loree's Conn 46K is a horn I used to use for dixieland band gigs. They CAN be used, and quite effectively, so they are useful, but if there were sufficient demand for them, they would be in production today somewhere, by someone. So, they are very interesting and useful-to-some-people antiques that would cost $20,000.00+ if they were being made to the same standards today that they were then.

One of the most wonderful attributes of humans is their adaptability, as we can normally adapt to play just about anything if we really put our mind to it. I'll say that I've performed on sousaphones ranging from a Reynolds Eb to a Conn jumbo, but still, I think the best fit for myself and most of the masses is something closer to the range from the King on the small side to the Conn 20K on the large side, with the Conn 14K and the somewhat-rare 32K being just the finest-ever players in the middle. As Bloke has mentioned numerous times, you'll be hard-pressed to find a better overall sousaphone than a Conn (Elkhart) 14K. The post-WWII metal Buescher sousaphones have, from what I can tell, a 14K body with distinctive ferrules and a slightly different valveset. These are also amongst the most delicious-playing horns ever.

One final thing I would say about the jumbo sousas and their practicality has to do with weight - the valveset is the heaviest part of the instrument, and if you have a 4-valve jumbo, I'd exercise caution actually using one for very long standing unless you are an athletic giant. The privileged tones are so good on the 6/4 sousas that I never felt at a loss with owning 3-valve versions (which are also a bit less expensive), and the difference in weight for me made the difference between an instrument I could actually fairly-comfortably stroll, march, and stand with, and an instrument that was unduly compressing my spine and enriching my chiropractor and massage therapist.

[Donn]

Even a fiberglass Jumbo would save some weight, you could even add a brass bell if needed! I have even been looking into carbon fiber as an alternative, I just need to figure out how to make the body branches.

I think a key point to bear in mind from the above testimonials is that this instrument does not need to be made. Yes, it's fun for half a dozen guys who have an old jumbo sousaphone to play it, maybe even play it often, but they could probably do what they're doing with a 34J, no? For anything that's really happening with sousaphones, you want a smaller one. Seriously.

[eupher61]

After finally reading past threads, watching the video, looking at pictures...the Purdue King has a half-sibling, if not true brother, down thar wid some fella in Texas. Chloe is, in my memory at least, the same model. Dick Barth, when he was with King, could find nothing in the files to match the instrument. SN from 1925-30 and bell tenon bigger than the 46K. I will try to verify that...and maybe I can find a video of me playing Chloe. Besides, Chloe is a much cooler name...

[saktoons]

On the other end of the spectrum, I have a small B-M Bb sousaphone (I don't know the bore, but the valves are almost euphonium size) that is perfect for almost any gig. I have played Dixieland, small pick-up parades, and even "Them Basses" as a "guest artist" with four other tubas and a community band. My daughter (who is quite small) marches in her high school band with it. The band members call it (and her) the Tiny Tuba. And my daughter's tuba teacher keeps trying to buy it from me for his Klezmer band.

So given how versatile this horn is, why do I still crave an original 20K?

[Dan Schultz]

Even a fiberglass Jumbo would save some weight, you could even add a brass bell if needed! I have even been looking into carbon fiber as an alternative, I just need to figure out how to make the body branches.

I think a key point to bear in mind from the above testimonials is that this instrument does not need to be made. Yes, it's fun for half a dozen guys who have an old jumbo sousaphone to play it, maybe even play it often, but they could probably do what they're doing with a 34J, no? For anything that's really happening with sousaphones, you want a smaller one. Seriously.

+1. If I could own only one sousaphone... it would probably be the Selmer 'Signet' Commode-O-Phone! It's a hellofalot more practical than my 48K.

If I could own only one tuba... it would probably be the Miraphone 1291 5V.

All the rest (Marzans, Kings, etc., etc.) are here in 'the collection' simply because they can be.

[Wyvern]

Let's remind ourselves what a Jumbo sousaphone sounds like!
http://youtu.be/IlBsO7ewjh8

[Dan Schultz]

There are many videos of the great old sousaphones on You Tube. Just search for 'Jumbo Summit'. Thanks for putting up the videos. Great memories!

[eupher61]

So, Ian, it's been 10 years since I sold Chloe down the pike. Is he the same model as the Purdue? Same size at least? It's simply been too long. You have as good a reference as I do at this point, since I've not seen the Purdue horn in person.

[TubaRay]

All the rest (Marzans, Kings, etc., etc.) are here in 'the collection' simply because they can be.

...and that is all the justification necessary!

[eupher61]

So, Ian, it's been 10 years since I sold Chloe down the pike. Is he the same model as the Purdue? Same size at least? It's simply been too long. You have as good a reference as I do at this point, since I've not seen the Purdue horn in person.

As far as I'm aware, there are only TWO* four-valve HN White KING Jumbos. One was bought new back in 1925 by Purdue University's All-American Marching Band, along with some four-valve 1251 (that's the standard size) and one or two 1270/1 Giants, and some 1250s. All were satin silver with gold wash/plated bells. The 30 and 32 inch bells were standard for the Jumbos, but you could order just about any bell size up to 36 inches. "Chloe" has a 26 inch original bell, so it was a custom size for maybe a traveling musician... though the case was probably still the same size as the regular 30 or 32 inch bell. Purdue's case is massive and holds the bell on the lid... though I suspect it may have originally held another, smaller sousaphone along with the Jumbo.

Both of the four-valve Jumbos are the same size (excusing the bell diameter).

Purdue's Jumbo was overhauled at least twice, I believe I was told the last overhaul occurred just before they bought new Conn 20Ks. Yes, the Jumbo sits in its case in a huge warehouse, and only really gets played during Homecoming. They're using the new-style neck, which seems to force the player to orient the valves across the body, instead of off to the right. In my video, I have the bell in the right direction, but Jake still place the body across him. For those thinking it doesn't play well, as Jake didn't think it did... it needs the valves aligned. The second valve needs need cork and felt, and I'm sure the other valves to as well.

--------------------

*Mine, while being a four-valve, was originally a three valve and I had a custom fourth added to it. The fourth looks like the other three and even has the long skirt on the bottom of the valve like the other three valves.

so....are you saying Yes or No to my question?

[Donn]

So, Ian, it's been 10 years since I sold Chloe down the pike. Is he the same model as the Purdue? Same size at least?

In my view, the real question here is why isn't Chloe a "she"?

(Also, before typewriters arrived to streamline the language, we'd have probably made that Chlöe, and now that the computer has replaced the typewriter it would be a great time to enjoy some of those extra diacriticals before we lose them again to the stupid cellular phone.)

[J.c. Sherman]

As for the weight... maybe for you old guys it might be a problem, but us younger guys don't seem to have the same issues.

Want to hear some real gurly whining? Attend any HS marching band camp any where this summer. I've never heard such whining and complaining as I do at the beginning of every band camp. Even with fiberglass sousas, they whine like mules. Each year it seems to get worse, too.

Too much sitting on your arses playing video games. Time to man up, Nancy.

I whined, you bet! A musically worthless endeavor, carrying a substandard piece of equipment, for the purposes of killing my will to be a part of the Band. Sousas are not necessary for a marching band. Music is, but hey, that ship sailed from the schools a long long time ago... about the time the football team took all the money.

Grrrrr....

(Marched rehearsals with my bass bone - would've been okay marching with my real tuba, but even with only one tubist, he cared more how it looked than how it sounded... and this from the WMEA; that's when I knew this had nothing to do with art).

Double Grrrrrr....

[eupher61]

In my view, the real question here is why isn't Chloe a "she"?

(Also, before typewriters arrived to streamline the language, we'd have probably made that Chlöe, and now that the computer has replaced the typewriter it would be a great time to enjoy some of those extra diacriticals before we lose them again to the stupid cellular phone.)

Donn, I can' believe you have to ask such a question!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxDjgveKQwc

as to the diacriticals, in this instance and that of many young women right now, there is no need. Clowee. Maybe that's a bastardization due to type, but I'm not one to typecast. It's just a bastard to type "diacritical".

[Donn]

Donn, I can' believe you have to ask such a question!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxDjgveKQwc

New one on me, but I've heard the song it seems to refer to - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmt65852WLg. The song makes about as much sense as the cartoon, but the Chlo-e in the title isn't mentioned in the lyrics, so can be either first or second person depending on the gender of the singer.

[David Richoux]

Donn, I can' believe you have to ask such a question!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxDjgveKQwc

New one on me, but I've heard the song it seems to refer to - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmt65852WLg. The song makes about as much sense as the cartoon, but the Chlo-e in the title isn't mentioned in the lyrics, so can be either first or second person depending on the gender of the singer.

I think the cartoon was more likely inspired by this version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y02l0ZZht1U (nice bell front appearance!)

[Donn]

Nice Ted Lewis impersonation at the end. But the date I see on that is '45, and the Looney Tunes thing showed in '42. Silly stuff in some pretty serious times, anyway.