Soundproofing a practice room for euphonium

[Rick Denney]

A) Doesn't require a lot of structural/hard-to-remove changes? This is a rented apartment that I do not intend to keep.

B) Can be moved to new locations with relative ease? I'm fresh out of college and will be a bit of a nomad until I settle down years from now.

Unfortunately, I think your requirements will preclude being able to attenuate a lot of sound transmission.

Generally, heavy, well-damped things absorb sound. That's why a "soundproof" wall uses staggered studs or even two walls, with a damping material between them. Or two sheets of wallboard with a damping material between them.

You don't want to line the room with foam. That changes the sound reflected back to you, not the sound that is transmitted through the walls.

There is one approach that might be enough. Go buy enough cheap bookshelves to completely surround a practice space(preferably they could stand away from the nearest wall a couple of inches), and then go to one of these used-book stores that sells books by the yard to interior designers. Stuff those shelves full to the top. Then, lay a sheet of plastic over the top of them, followed by 2x4's that will span the opening placed across the top of the shelves. Lay a cheapie big thick rug across the top of the 2x4's, and staple the plastic to the underside. Lean a mattress up against your access opening so that it touches on all edges.

I don't know what you'll get in terms of attenuation. But it might be enough to reduce the effect below the annoyance level. It will be very much cheaper than a pre-fab practice cubicle, and it will move just like all your other stuff.

Oh, and be nice to your neighbors. Make deals with them about when it's okay to play, and stick to what you agree to.

Rick "who moved across the county in part to get away from demanding tuba-hating neighbors, and that in a house, not an apartment" Denney

[rascaljim]

Just to expand on Rick's comment about talking to your neighbors, this is a great option. Of course you can kiss off practicing after about 8pm but, depending on your schedule, it might be enough. I play in my studio (which is a wood floor and drywall between apartments) and so far I've never had a complaint (because I only play between 10 am and about 7 pm). That and most people are receptive to musical instrument noise (as long as it isn't a an overdrive guitar or drum kit or something.) You're best bet will also be to find a local college of university, doesn't matter the calibur, and find a way to work out your practicing there. I've had lots of luck here and there with that.
Good luck
Jim

[elimia]

Are your neighbors to the sides, above, or both? Dampening a ceiling might not be fun!

I'm interested in this thread particularly as I just got some new neighbors upstairs who don't seem keen on REAL music.

[Rick Denney]

...Will putting the bookshelves and carpet on just the one wall do the trick?

I wouldn't mind investing in some of the more expensive accoustic equipment, so long as it's worth it in the long run and the cost is within reason. Anyone experimented with commercial supplies for this? (vinyl sheets, etc.)

There is no lightweight coating you can put over a wall that will do any good whatsoever. Even hanging a rug on the wall would have limited effect, unless it was extremely heavy, and then it would only be subtle improvement.

Bookshelves just on the one wall is better than nothing, and better than any sheet of anything. Six-foot high bookshelves at Office Depot are about $70, and I'll bet you can do better. It would take four on your wall.

But the key to the bookshelf plan would be to fill the darn things with books, in every nook and cranny, right up to the ceiling. And I would stand them a couple of inches from the wall, too. Lots of mass and no gaps would be required. Get shelves with a solid back (even if it's fiberboard).

Boxes full of books (or paper, or anything really heavy and soft) would do just as well. Stack 'em right up to the top. That would be cheaper than bookshelves, especially if you already have the boxes from your move. Close in ALL the gaps.

The problem is that it will be really hard to know what effect it will have until you do it, and it might not have any effect at all, because sound can go right around your wall through the structure of the building. Low-frequency sound is the hardest to attenuate--at least you are playing euphonium and not tuba.

There is no quick fix here with your requirements, I'm afraid. Something dreadful like Silent Brass might be your only option for playing outside the hours your neighbors will accept.

Rick "damping takes mass and a good seal" Denney

[Tubaryan12]

I'm thinking......small tent from wal-mart ($50)....about 10 blankets from the thrift store ($5 each)...needle and thread to sew the blankets together ($3)......drape the blankets over the tent, add a chair, light and music stand and there you go...portable, cheap, re-usable!

[pg]

Have you every tried practicing in your car? (not while driving, of course ) I tried it once and, boy, was that wierd. - I doubt the neighbors would complain about that, especially if you parked far away.

--paul;

[Bove]

Whisper Room makes a nice product that I think would fill your needs.
http://www.whisperroom.com/

If this is out of your budget, you could figure out how to build a similar structure with your own parts. The nice thing about a whisper room is that they are relatively easy to assemble, and you can take it with you when you move.

Like you, I didn’t want to disturb people in my building- so I built a practice room in a large closet. It is essentially a room inside of a room. The walls, ceiling, and floor have a lot of mass, are completely isolated structurally from the existing closet, and are reasonably airtight.

Building my practice room involved mixing a lot of concrete, and was not really very much fun. It works pretty well though, and if you want more info about it, I’d be happy to share it with you.

[Dylan King]

Get one of Mario Guinari's B.U.R.P. and just do mouthpiece practice at home when your neighbors don't want you playing. With that much practice on the mouthpiece, you should have perfect pitch in no time.

[Mitch]

A couple other options:

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm ... oup_ID=333

http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=product ... 0477-15357

http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=product ... -122-15348

Stryofoam insulation, if cut correctly to fit, can be held in place with velcro. It also creates a low-cost solution to thickening the walls. It can also be painted. You could easily put 4" on each wall which should significantly lessen the amount of sound passing through, and, once painted, would provide acoustics not too far removed from the original room.

Mitch

[Tabor]

In soundproofed practice modules, I've noticed that it changes the sound which comes back. I don't think this can be avoided in any small room with our particular instruments.

If expense was no object, I wonder what incredibly generous amounts of dynamat/particleboard multi-layer sandwich would do (and that Rockford Fosgate and similar sound deadening spray). That would be an expensive experiment!

Or plywood and rigid foam insulation covering everything...

..and an inch or two of silicone caulk...and warm tar...and Jelly

-Tabor

[Joe Baker]

I haven't tried this (don't need to; I live in a house sufficiently removed from neighbors), but I think it would work.

Go to a mattress store. Explain that you need 5 King size mattress boxes, and you'll pay $10 apiece for them, and give them a card with your name and number. Once you get the boxes, round up enough newspapers to fill the boxes with wadded paper. Actually, for three of the walls it might be better to stuff them with cloth, or maybe cellulose insulation (cheap, at Home Depot or Lowes). Then, using strapping tape, assemble the boxes into a cubicle cave (three walls and a ceiling). bring your chair and light into the cubicle, and pull the fourth wall into place when you're ready to practice. A little velcro should hold it in place fairly well. Then, if you also want to throw rugs, blankets, etc over the whole arrangement, so much the better. You'll have to open the door for a few seconds to exchange air every 15-20 minutes, but I think this would work pretty well. Your ceiling would be a 7-foot-high smooth surface, which should reflect your sound back...okay. The small number of seams will help limit the sound escaping your chamber.

If you need to sound-insulate the floor, just fill the area a foot deep with wadded newspapers (you'll need to run a foot-and-a-half-high threshold of cardboard across the opening to hold the papers in). Step over the threshold, wade through the papers to your chair, and play!
____________________________________
Joe Baker, who hopes somebody tries this and posts their results.

[Rick Denney]

Stryofoam insulation, if cut correctly to fit, can be held in place with velcro. It also creates a low-cost solution to thickening the walls. It can also be painted. You could easily put 4" on each wall which should significantly lessen the amount of sound passing through, and, once painted, would provide acoustics not too far removed from the original room.

I think you'll be surprised at how ineffective styrofoam can be by itself, especially for low frequency sound. It's sampe pretty well at high frequencies, but not at low frequencies. Damping the aluminum skin of pre-fab practice rooms is generally done with something much software to damp low frequences more effectively (this keeps the two wall skins from vibrating in sympathy).

Rick "been there, done that" Denney

[Rick Denney]

Once you get the boxes, round up enough newspapers to fill the boxes with wadded paper.

I think buying the mattresses, and putting them on the floor with the filled boxes against the walls will be better than wadded paper, which leaks too much air (and harbors critters, too).

I would fill the boxes with foam peanuts (as opposed to foam blocks, which I don't think would work). If it's stiff enough to hold its own shape, it will not damp low frequencies very well. Fill them to the top. Use King Size mattress boxes so they are 7' long, and place them on a row of book-filled boxes so they are tight against the ceiling.

Rick "thinking this is a good idea, but who still doesn't know if it will work" Denney

[Joe Baker]

Rick,
I've been in Tennessee long enough now that I really didn't even think about roaches in the paper. So yeah, I think Styrofoam peanuts would be better for the ceiling and moveable wall; but I still think the cellulose insulation would be best for the walls. It's pretty heavy (I'm thinking structural stability AND sound damping), and its small pieces provide very many, very small and very isolated air-spaces. It won't support the 'critters', and will allow filling right up to the top (and it's cheap -- another design criterion).

Rethinking the floor, perhaps a fifth box, filled with the cellulose (or a cast-off mattress in a big airtight plastic bag -- critters being, again, the concern), and a sheet of 3/4 inch plywood for the actual floor surface. Walls should also be on top of this box, to maintain sufficient headroom. Or maybe go back to the original idea of wading through the insulation, but use something else -- maybe old tennis balls? -- instead of newspaper, and fill most of the floor (leaving just enough room for your feet while in your chair) with boxes of peanuts, or Hefty bags full of out of season clothes...
__________________________________
Joe Baker, who may try this just for fun, and so he can practice after the family goes to bed.

[FarahShazam]

Cheapest way would be carpet and long drapes... Thick drapes (or just whatever the cheapest fabric you can find at a fabric store... take a pic and post it when you are done )

You won't like the way you sound in there, BTW.