How many Berliner Tubas in the style 'Moritz' are out there

[bisontuba]

Hi-
Having been fortunate to acquire the 2+2 Berliner Anon. Tuba in Eb--shown in a post here called 'Old Horn dorn'--has got me wondering just how many of these exist in private hands.

Here's a Moritz tuba (5 Berliner, 2+3 combo, in F )



The tubas can be anywhere from 3-6 Berliner Pumpen valves, marked or unmarked, in F , E, or Eb, early like the Moritz or later like those used in older Swedish band music, with moveable/set slides, etc.

The two horns shown on Phil's website 'Phil's Rugs-N-Stuff' are great examples. The horn in the Simonetti collection is another great example. The Shrine has a 3 valve example, my horn is a 2+2 example, Klaus has a 5 valve example, I know of one near Cleveland that is a 4 valve example, etc. Many European museums will have examples but I'm curious how many of these are in private hands--the truly first bass brass instrument called a 'tuba.' If you have one, post a pic and a description--let's see what Tubanetter's have!

Thanks-
Mark
jonestuba@gmail.com" target="_blank

[TheBerlinerTuba]

Hallo Mark,

The inventor of this instrument was Wilhelm Friedrich Wieprecht:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Fr ... _Wieprecht
who worked closely with the instrument maker Johann Gottfried Moritz to create the first "Tuba" in 1835.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuba

You shouldn't play on a Berliner tuba for too long though, or you might end up like this poor fellow...

Cheers
2165

[bisontuba]

After playing my old horn, now I know why I was craving bananas...
Mark

[J.c. Sherman]

If you include top-action instruments in the style of Sax's instruments, there are quite a few; the bore profile is very similar to Moritz's instrument. However, if you limit your search to instruments such as the one pictured, the 3 valver at the NMM, and similar instruments, the number drops precipitously. When you examine such instruments very closely (or even superficially!) you can see why. They are, by our standards, very delicate, ergonomically nightmarish, and most have elements on each which are experimental.

You have to remember that each maker was experimenting. These were ground-up new. While they had elements of instruments which had existed before... they were very few. Only in places relatively far flung from Germany did any makers continue working in the Moritz format and make them more reliable and even... and few used the Berlin format for long besides the Saxhorns.

You're looking for instruments slightly more prevalent than fur coats made from fish.

J.c.S.

[TheBerlinerTuba]

When you examine such instruments very closely (or even superficially!) you can see why. They are, by our standards, very delicate, ergonomically nightmarish, and most have elements on each which are experimental.

In comparision to the french, the germans-especially in Berlin-were not thinking in terms of mass production. Moritz' shop at the time had at most 10 people and probably fewer. They were more interested in quality than quantity. According to Moritz' logbook, they filled 84 orders for their Baßtuba. The later makers in Markneukirchen and east Germany made many more, but how many exactly we'll never know, but not at the quality level as the Berlin and Potsdam makers.
The serious weak point on most Berliner style tubas are their valves. The seamed tubing used to make the pistons and cylinders can split, and is not easy to fix. Only the later manufacture Altrichter(ca1870-1920s) from Frankfurt Oder(east of Berlin-on the Polish border) had more advanced seamless nickelsilver pistons.

If you've held a real Moritz Berliner tuba in your hands, they are quite robust as they were built for military parades etc. I'm not sure what you mean by "ergonomically nightmarish". I recently played a concert on mine and it's honestly more comfortable than my modern tubas.

Only in places relatively far flung from Germany did any makers continue working in the Moritz format and make them more reliable and even... and few used the Berlin format for long besides the Saxhorns.

Where do you mean exactly? The Scandinavians continued developing this idea for quite some time, but I think they were the only ones and they're not so far away;)

You're looking for instruments slightly more prevalent than fur coats made from fish.

Very true...

[bisontuba]

A couple of nice images found on the IBEW brass site ( IBEW.co.uk )-first one is a 2+3 style horn and the second is a 3 valve version-FYI-mark

[pjv]

A recent acquisition from a repairman out here in the Netherlands, Roland de Wilde. Not in Moritz style but I thought it relevant enough to post. What Roland says about it on his FB;

The tuba picture, on the left an old Götz F tuba with 3 berliner pump ventiele to compare on the right a modern Meinl F tuba

[TheBerlinerTuba]

As seen in Berlin yesterday:
Moritz Berliner Tuba ca.1850s

[bisontuba]

Great add'l pics!!!! Was that at the Berlin Valve Brass Music exhibit? I ordered the catalog/book of the display......
Mark

[bisontuba]

As seen in Berlin yesterday:
Moritz Berliner Tuba ca.1850s

.....and is this your own 'Moritz' style (maker E. Paulus, Berlin) bass tuba? Beautiful instrument...mark

[pjv]

I saw this Anton Dehmal F on Tony Clements' lowbrasswerks site.
Does a rotary horn count?