Which one is it?

[ghmerrill]

This does look pretty, but I suspect that we'll learn that in some way the lacquer one is just a bit closer to the camera than the other. I thought for a moment that the picture may have been PhotoShopped, but the effort to get the shadows just right inclines me to think otherwise. It does in fact look like just a difference in camera angle combined with distance to lens. The one appears not just longer, but proportionally larger at every point (including even the sizes of the the finger paddles). Hmmm? What do you think?

But if they're both perfectly in tune, what does it matter?

Troll? Nah!

[ghmerrill]

I think you missed the point of some of my comments. However, ...

They don't look at all different to me -- except absolutely proportionally. It just looks like the brass one is a few inches closer to the camera. Not only do they "look much like each other", they look IDENTICAL except for the finish and the minor relative (and totally proportional) size that's easily accounted for by aspects of the photo.

They both even have the new Wessex Logo with the Wyvern on them!! So do I need to believe that Jonathan somehow had the new logo engraved on an old model instrument? Really? Just for this photo? Because he somehow couldn't get two of the new models? Or that one is a prototype that then wasn't actually used as the ... er ... prototype? I think I'm not worried about this.

Just don't see the point of it. But I'm sure Jonathan may be able to help you out.

[Michael Bush]

Jonathan told me months ago that a different F that would look much like the old one would be coming. Without playing the new one, I won't stand to it that it's better, but I'll bet all comers that it's measurably different.

[Dan Schultz]

.... Maybe there are two new models along the lines of the Miraphone Bel Canto models. Similar, but different.

Unless we get to physically inspect them ourselves, I guess we'll just never know.

They may both be the same model. However... at the speed the industry is changing, I don't think any two tubas coming off the lines in Asia are the same! They keep 'fiddling' with stuff they will eventually get things right! I'll bet you can't pick up the phone and buy parts for those critters.

On-the-other-hand.... you can't get parts assistance from Conn-Selmer these days either!

[Bob Kolada]

I'd try one! I still don't want 6 above 5 (the only horn I play anymore is a 5 valve F, I'd even prefer this with 5 instead of the current setup) and truthfully I didn't much like the sound of the original. I do like how the Firebird sounds.

[Wyvern]

Although I have not played these actual two F tubas, as they are in Michigan - they should be the same and any perceived difference is no doubt due to angle and distance from camera. Consistency is actually quiet good. At least the ones I have in the UK play much alike. Consistency and quality are something the factory is working very hard to improve and are surprisingly receptive to my continued comments and requests.

I'll bet you can't pick up the phone and buy parts for those critters.

I can get virtually any spare part with no problem - in only a couple weeks in an emergency situation if sent by airmail.

I'd try one! I still don't want 6 above 5 (the only horn I play anymore is a 5 valve F, I'd even prefer this with 5 instead of the current setup)

Your request for 5-valve version is duly noted

I know there will be disbelieve about how much better these play, but I truly was 'gobsmacked' when I tried at factory

Wessex are planning to exhibit at NBBAA and ITEC next year, so if at either of those events, you will get the chance to try yourself this and our other exciting new models that will be out before then

[elihellsten]

I'm sure the camera angle **** some things up, but I think that it is quite clear that the leadpipe bend going to the valve section is not the same on the two tubas in the image. The silver plated version is clearly much closer to the top of the top bow than the lacquered, and such a difference would not occur just because of the different angles.

[hup_d_dup]

As a former commercial photographer I can tell you that when photographing two objects side-by-side in a single photograph, it is extremely difficult not to introduce some distortion if the the objects happen to be 3 dimensional, not flat. This is a problem that comes up occasionally when doing technical work for industrial or scientific clients.

If the lens is well corrected, the distortion will be visual, not mathematical, and the image can still be a "true" representation even if it looks incorrect or even weird.

As mentioned in one of the posts, this photograph has the avoidable flaw of a viewpoint that is closer to the lacquered tuba, but even if the camera had been properly positioned exactly between the two instruments, the two instruments would look still look different because they are offset from the optical axis in opposite directions (there are strategies to deal with this but I won't go into that here).

Hup

[hup_d_dup]

The silver plated version is clearly much closer to the top of the top bow than the lacquered, and such a difference would not occur just because of the different angles.

It does appear that the leadpipe bend is different. Is there any other difference that can be determined from the photograph?

Hup

[Donn]

It does appear that the leadpipe bend is different. Is there any other difference that can be determined from the photograph?

I suspect this is also due to perspective - we're seeing the lacquer one from the left, and the plated one from the right, so the leadpipe on the lacquer one includes a length we don't see on the plated one.

What angle of view do you think? My guess is something under 45° - not grossly wide angle, but enough to be a little deceptive. It has been a while since I thought about this stuff, but since we tend view an image at more like 30°... Also believe the vantage point is at about 1/3 from the top, like the top 1/4 of the original image was cropped. That adds to the confusion.

[trnewcomb]

While the sizes do look different, I have noticed in other shots of a brass and silver instrument side by side where the silver one appeared slightly smaller. But not this much smaller. And, that being said, the leadpipe bend observations appear to be spot-on. Perhaps there are multiple manufacturers involved as someone earlier suggested - I do remember hearing something about Wessex changing manufacturers at some point. Hopefully they'll be able to clear up the confusion.