Horn accuracy vs other instruments

[doublebuzzing]

For those of you competent on multiple instruments, is it much easier to miss on horn than on others, say, tuba? What do you think of the following quote?

“French Horn is the only fallible instrument in the orchestra. Any other instrument, if you play a wrong note, it’s your own fault. But if a horn player misses and hits a clam, you can’t always blame them, and you kind of feel for them when it happens.” (Daniel Rothmuller) http://allisyar.com/2012/12/15/andrew-b ... ituations/" target="_blank" target="_blank

[TexTuba]

[hbcrandy]

In addition to playing tuba, I also studied and played horn proficiently. The F horn is actually the same length as an F tuba but, due to the small bore of most of the tubing and the small mouthpiece, most of the playing is in the upper part of the harmonic series of the tube length with the partials closer together. So, I guess a case can be made that it is easier to miss a note on the horn. However, when playing the horn, like any other brass instrument, if your solfege is solid and you can hear the note in your head as you are playing it, it will come out. I have found with my students that a large percentage of high register problems is going for a note in the upper partials and having no mental concept of where the note is. If you are able to sing your part and your embouchure is in good condition, you can play it.

[Ace]

Yep. That is spot on, Randy. A horn player is doomed if he/she can't hear in advance what the pitch should be. And, of course, a good working embouchure is a must. Maybe it's just me, but I have found that French horns are more mouthpiece sensitive than other brass instruments. I finally settled on the Neil Sanders (BBC Symphony) #16M for all-purpose playing. Years ago, I was faced with back to back concerts wherein I played Horn I in Beethoven's Symphony No. 2 and Symphony No. 7. Both those works have some really high, treacherous, and exposed horn passages. Without the Sanders mouthpiece I would have made clam chowder.

Ace

[pjv]

Ya, but tuba players don't like have their hand stuck all up in the bell, now do they. Oh, and in general they usually play much more than the rest of the brass in an orchestra.

By the way, the natural trumpet was the length of a trombone (often in Bb). With the advent of valves, it was shortened to F and then later even further to the modern day Bb (and C and Eb, etc).
I've often wondered if this transition was made because men felt the trumpet played easier and more accurate in that mpc/bore/instrument length proportion.

I find that all my large bore tubas are easier to play accurately than my small bore ones. Same holds true for my trombone playing. Less resistance I guess. And it's me. Sure there are others that don't have this, but we are talking generalizations, aren't we?

Of coarse ear training is one of the keys to accurate playing on ANY brass instrument. But all things considered, the horn is rather archaic and IMHO easier to mess up on than the rest of the brass.

[MaryAnn]

I found that some horns are more mouthpiece sensitive, and what made a huge difference for me was a bell. Someone else tried my bell on his horn and *clearly* missed fewer notes than with his bell. I think the tapers on a horn in the mpc, leadpipe, and bell have to be "better" than on some other brasses in order for the instrument to have slots that are taken for granted on other instruments. Most people use the Bb side of the horn for everything above concert middle C, because of the slots' being farther apart than on the F side.

[hbcrandy]

I think the tapers on a horn in the mpc, leadpipe, and bell have to be "better" than on some other brasses in order for the instrument to have slots that are taken for granted on other instruments.

Mary Ann, you are quite right about the taper of the horn. I ran an internatinally known horn pro shop through 1999 when I sold the business. I had a good relationship with Walter Lawson the famous horn designer who did much research into the taper of the horn as it relates to the proper "slotting" of the partials.

The leadpipe taper of a the horn is more critical than the tuba's due to the fact that the horn is mainly played in the upper partials of the tube length. These partials have more antinodal points that are in the leadpipe portion of the horn than those on a tuba. If the diameter of the leadpipe at these points is not optimal to produce a specific note, the note in question will be out of tune with its fellow notes on the harmonic series which it exists. Therefore, even if the player can hear the proper note that he or she is attempting and tries to place it where it should be, the horn will "fight" the pitch trying to be played due to the leadpipe taper problem an cause a potential missed attack.

Walter and his son, Bruce, also did research on bell flares considering alloy and annealing temperature as to their affect on sound quality and projection. They found that the bell flare affected the two, aforementioned factors but did not increase the player's accuracy when attacking and producing a note.

The following is my opinion based on experience playing many different kinds of horns and tubas. The taper rate of the instrument seems to affect the amount of control the player has when placing a pitch where the player wants it to be. Instruments with a monre gradual taper seem to be the ones where the instrument "tells" you where it will allow the pitch to be placed. Instruments where the taper gets larger at a faster rate seem to me to give the player more of a say where the pitch will sound. I have mainly noticed this on the horn. I was trained by Philadelphia players where the Conn 8D was the standard horn. The 8D horn terminates in a bell with a very large throat and gets to the bell throat with a taper that opens at a greater rate than does a Schmidt or Geyer style horn. Having had many examples of all of the aforementioned horns through my shop over the years, I have found that the Schmidt and Geyer style horns tend to either play in tune or out of tune with themselves where an 8D or Kruspe style horn can be played in tune with itself.

Here endeth my dissertation.

[MaryAnn]

It just so happens that I ended up with a Lawson mouthpiece and a Lawson ambronze bell on my wide throat Schmid. I always had great admiration for Walter Lawson. The Schmid leadpipe seems to be ok but I say that never having tried a Lawson, and of course it's too late to get a "Lawson Lawson" leadpipe anyway.
MA

[iiipopes]

The one year I played horn in college concert band did not seem to be a problem. It's still embouchure sets the pitch, the horn provides the proper resonance. If the embouchure is good, accuracy is not an issue. Technical faculty with the hands to get the proper fingering and hand in the bell to darken to the proper timbre is.