Chinese instruments- personal experience

[Ulli]

TL;DR...
Chinese tubas are copies of other tubas, ...

Mostly Yamaha copies in the 3-4 valve euphoniums.

OK, but which tuba is the original for the new re-engineered Jinbao F600, also known as Wessex Brahms?

[Wyvern]

OK, but which tuba is the original for the new re-engineered Jinbao F600, also known as Wessex Brahms?

I believe it is based on the Miraphone 181C - http://www.miraphone.de/en/en_modeldeta ... =1&lang=en

This is an interesting thread. I am going to China in only one week and am going to be strongly pushing for further quality improvements (as well as initiate/progress some more new models). Playing wise, I genuinely think that the best from China are as good as western manufactured instruments, and with just a bit more attention to finish and quality checking, they can be world class. JinBao in particular, are very keen to improve and I have very good working relationship with production manager, so am confident we will make progress.

Jonathan "who will be playing Wessex Champion Eb tuba at Henley Royal Regatta today"

[The Big Ben]

If you're thinking of buying a Chinese "version" of a "real" instrument and having someone "upgrade" the "build" of it, that ain't gonna happen. Just buy the real thing.

Or, at least, the cost to 'blueprint' some of these Chinese horns (bring all systems up to a high standard of completion) would be enough that the price savings is radically reduced but the resale value doesn't change. A tech might make a go of it by offering a flat-fee service (500?) to make everything right with the hard-fixes balanced out by the easy-fixes but it still wouldn't be that much of a value for the consumer.

[Lingon]

...So, since the subject of Chinese tubas is at hand, I would consider hard and long before buying one new. They come onto the secondary market quite frequently at rather reduced prices...

Hmm, it sounds like we live in two worlds. In my world I very seldom see used Chinese instruments on the market. So, what is that indicating? Either that they are as bad as not even surviving to be sold as used or that the buyers are happy with them and continue to play?
OTOH, I more often see used instruments from other parts of the world, and usually they are up for sale for very long times, with price dropping successively, before someone grabs them.
Irrespective of whichever someone wants to buy it is very good to try or have someone trusted player try before buying. You can find a cheap winner or an expensive dog or vice versa.
My "personal experience" as the subject says? My Chinese instruments has been good players and 'keepers'...

[Michael Bush]

Think with your bank account more than your urges for tubal gratification.

Yep. I couldn't agree more.

I see you re-edited your response here to use this snippet to support you goal. Don't forget the rest. Don't shop blindly hoping for luck. Buying "cheap" isn't always the smart purchase.

Not to support a goal, but to give you the benefit of the doubt, supposing that surely you would be good enough at reading comprehension to realize I wasn't recommending buying at random any more than playing the lottery. Actually it seems to me we agree about most of this subject. The only difference appears to be that you think it's realistic to buy a tuba, add wear and tear, then sell it at a profit, and I think planning for that to happen is folly.

[EdFirth]

In my experience with buying and selling tubas they always appreciate. If you keep them in good shape and allow enough time to pass. My King 1241 cost me 600 bucks 1988(used) and while I did have the first slide flipped and the loop taken out of the third at some small expense it hasn't gotten any new dents, and I played it at the Rat for years.I'm sure you all are aware of what they go for now. The misconception I most often see in the For Sale section here is that you can flip a horn in two or three years and get all of your money out of it or make a profit. So by my little theory you could buy a good playing/sounding riceburner, and barring accidents,use it for ten years and sell it for what you paid. My logic is just inflation. Everything goes up and an 1800 dollar Miraclone will most likely be going for 3000 in 2024. The wildcard, of course, being that it's made well enough in the first place. I guess the sumnation of this little tirade is to look at what the old horns are going for at Dillon's and Baltimore Brass then look up what they cost new. OK, I'm done now. Peace, Ed

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Okay, I admit that about 50 percent of my problems with Chinese instruments is personal/emotionally driven. I just think that money going to Germany is better than money going to China, what with China being a global threat and Germany being...cute little Germany. I have a hard time trusting the Chinese to do what they say; they are internationally known for their shady business practices.

[Michael Bush]

I like to buy their tubas once they are done consuming them. Their consumed tubas usually go "cheap." I get to clean them up, use them for as long as I like, and then sell them to buy the next tuba I want to try or catches my interest.

Yes, I do that too, rarely losing more than I'm willing to, often more or less breaking even, and sometimes making some. Once I made quite a nice amount, as a percentage. Maybe I should call that one my investment.

However, having - like most people, I imagine - only a few of the necessary tools and skills to use them that it requires, the "clean them up" element adds to the cost, so this too is part of the expense and does not transform it into an investment.

I still like S&P index funds as investments, and will go on thinking of tubas the way a friend thinks of his boat: something that's worth spending some money on for the pleasure they give.