Miraphone 6/4 CC & Two 6/4 BBb Models

[Steve Marcus]

Within the past few weeks, there was a photo posted of someone playing a 6/4 CC prototype at the Miraphone headquarters.

Could someone please repost the photo or provide a link to it?

Thanks.

[hubert]

Probably the Hagen 496 (5/4) or Hagen 497 (6/4)...??
From my memory, I think I have seen a photo on the site of Hornguys.
Hubert

[Steve Marcus]

Probably the Hagen 496 (5/4) or Hagen 497 (6/4)...??

Thanks for your suggestion, Hubert. However, this photo also appeared about 2 or 3 years ago, before the Hagen protos were introduced. The caption definitely read that the horn was a 6/4 CC; the Hagens are in BBb. The horn was also quite different than the Siegfried. It had a rough finish which befits a prototype.

[Bass Flatulance]

Go to miraphone.de and look around the "News" links. I see a picture of the 2 new BBb tubas on stage with the Siegried. That big one has got to cost more than a good used pick-up truck.

[Tubajug]

That photo, with the guy in the background, makes those things look monstrous!

[Steve Marcus]

Kiltie, the photo that you posted, while very interesting, is not the one that I'm thinking of.

I'm fairly sure that the prototype that was in the photo to which I'm referring is a piston 6/4 CC.

What details do you know about the horns and the player in the photo that you posted?

[Tuba1985]

The Guy in the picture is Mr. Hirthe of the Badische Staatskapelle Karlsruhe who helped to design some "new" miraphone tubas and who is also honorary professor at the University of Music in Karlsruhe.
The tubas in the front of the picture are from left to right:

The Hagen (497), 5 valve model (6/4 Model, BBb)

The Hagen (496), 4 valve model (5/4 Model, BBb)

The Siegfried

The tuba, Mr. Hirthe is playing on, is the "newly" designed F-Tuba, Model 481Elektra (5/4 Model, F-Tuba).

Hope that helps.

I've also seen some photos of a 6/4 piston CC-Tuba made by miraphone, but it seems to be in a development / prototype stage.

[lowtones425]

Somebody posted this picture on Facebook a couple weeks ago...

Not sure if its the one you're looking for, though.

Ben

[Steve Marcus]

THAT'S the photo of the Miraphone 6/4 CC prototype.

Who is the player?

[lowbrassdad]

The tubist with the Miraphone prototype 6/4 CC is Pablo M. Fernandez Garcia of the Symphonie Orchesters Barcelona. I had the pleasure of speaking with him at ITEC in Linz. The prototype CC was at ITEC in Tucson, Arizona in 2010. Roger Lewis can speak to the development of the 6/4 CC. As an owner of a Siegfried, I have to agree that Miraphone really "knocked this one out of the park". Indeed a 6/4 CC cousin of the Siegfried would be very interesting. I am surprised that the new B flat in the photo looks even larger than the Siegfried. It may be photographic technique.

[Bob Kolada]

Was that Chuck/bububassboner?


Edit- not the photo

[bububassboner]

No that is no me. I have played the horn though. Don't expect it to go into production anytime soon. That project is "on the back burner".

[Roger Lewis]

[Steve Marcus]

Since Miraphone's current priority among 6/4 horns is to develop BBb models rather than CC's, the topic subject has been adjusted.

The Siegfried 98B had a prototype shown in 2010 and has been available to purchase for over a year. Miraphone Artist Eros Sabbatini has been playing and touting this model. Gene Pokorny, Tony Kniffin, and others (yes! in the US!) have selected to play the Siegfried for certain repertoire; Gene recently played the Siegfried for a couple of pieces in the annual CSO Brass concert that coincides with the Midwest Band & Orchestra Clinic.

It was announced at Midwest that the 6/4 Hagen 497 and the 5/4 Hagen 496 BBb horns were in prototype stage. While neither the Siegfried (GP had it) nor the Hagen(s) were on display in the Miraphone booth at Midwest, a brief verbal explanation provided by Roger Lewis, Richard Murrow and Markus Theinert was that the Hagen horns are being developed more with the European market in mind.

Here is a listing of the specifications and prices for both 6/4 BBb tubas:

Miraphone 6-4 BBb specs and prices.jpg

Here is a further explanation from Miraphone's Facebook page editor:

The Hagen 497, [developed in conjunction with Dirk Hirthe, Honorary Professor for Tuba at the University of Music in Karlsruhe and tuba player for the Baden Staatskapelle], is the largest of a new set of traditional German BBb tubas Made by Miraphone. It is currently available with 4 rotary valves only (the standard "Siegfried" comes with 5 valves), the bell diameter is an inch smaller than the "Siegfried's" and the leadpipe and valve casings have been redesigned to achieve the typical Germanic BBb core for repertoire like Wagner, Strauss, Bruckner etc. [Both 6/4 BBb models are 101 cm/39.76 inches tall.]

While the "Siegfried" remains our largest animal in the stable, the Hagen family (with 496 and 497 released soon and 495 on the way until summer 2015) promises to convince with crystal clar articulation and substantial core in all ranges. Without the resistance of an extra fifth valve they force the player to pull slides in the low octve, but reward him with an incredible directness of response.

This explanation seems somewhat "promotional" in nature. It seems unlikely that Miraphone would keep both models in production, although each is somewhat "handmade" and built individually. Is the Hagen 497 ostensibly an improvement over the Siegfried? By choosing a BBb [Siegfried] over a CC (where CC is the norm for contrabass tuba, whereas BBb is the only choice for many European orchestral players), isn't an orchestral player already thinking in terms of Wagner, Bruckner, etc.?

I've had the sincere pleasure of playing the Siegfried only briefly in the noisy booth of an exhibition, and I did not sense stuffiness when using the 5th valve.

Perhaps the only way to discover the differences in playability, sound, and appearance is to play them side by side in a room with good acoustics, preferably a large hall.

[Alex C]

I played the Miraphone 6/4 CC piston version. I thought it was really good at the time as did almost everyone who played it. Why Miraphone didn't bring it into production is a mystery to me, but they are a conservative company, cautious and obsessive about quality. Other 6/4 CC's have come out since then and I believe Miraphone may have lost pro sales to the more recent, and less expensive horns.

But think of the changes. Most of the legends of orchestral playing used one instrument for 95% of their career. Jacobs, Schmidt, Novotny, Bishop, Krzywicki.

Say Bishop or Schmidt and you think of Alexander. Novotny, King. Jacobs, York.... etc.

Today, tubists are using various keyed tubas made by various manufacturers as it suits the music. This is a major change in performance for our instrument.

[swillafew]

Looks to me like the German market is where Miraphone is making their money.